Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)

The trial is to commence in 2011 with between 150 and 200 people; with approximately 300,000 people signing on in one form or another, the number is very small. We will select clients considered low risk. If we are to combat fraud we should consider people who are low and high risk, and we know from experience that perennially putting effort into low-risk people disperses efforts against high-risk people.

We will make a dramatic change in personal contact. The rules were changed by Deputy Hanafin and people must personally attend at a local post office to get payment. People cannot get it by electronic transfer any more. The only flaw is that in the bigger urban post offices and even in rural Ireland, people do not know everybody. With the introduction of the public services card it will be much easier for the post office personnel to be absolutely sure the right person is present. That relates to weekly attendance, which is even more important than the monthly signing on. I am absolutely happy that we must have this legal facility to use electronic means.

I assure Senators that whatever technology is adopted or brought to the system, it will not be rolled out on a wide basis until we are sure the technology gives more benefit than risks. The idea is to free up staff, reduce risk and target resources better. If anybody ever goes into a local social welfare office, much time is taken just signing, and that is totally disproportionate to the benefit.