Joe O'Toole (Independent)

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Áine Brady, and acknowledge the generous comments of the Minister of State, Deputy Calleary.

I was stunned by my colleague's remark that P.J. Fitzpatrick does not inspire confidence because I know he has a vision.

Perhaps there is a communication issue and people need to have clearer understanding. I will undertake to organise for Mr. Fitzpatrick come in some time in January to brief a few people informally on what is happening. Fair questions have been raised on this side of the House and I am not for one second saying otherwise. There are questions which need to be answered. I have stress tested Mr. Fitzpatrick on difficult issues on a number of occasions, however, and he has taken difficult telephone calls from me. I am seriously impressed by his commitment, diligence and effectiveness, and I will come back to that.

Mr. Fitzpatrick's previous role as head of the Courts Service should also be noted. Senators can have good look at what is happening there. He certainly turned it around in terms of efficiency. If one can do that with the legal profession, one can do it anywhere.

Senators should be reassured and should question and demand to know where we are going on these issues. We need to start this debate in two places. On tonight's news I saw tear gas and fire-bombs on the streets of Athens, and there will be something similar in Brussels tomorrow. We saw it in Rome yesterday and we have seen it in France all along. When the IMF came here, it saw the Irish trade union movement hold a demonstration which was peaceful and where people expressed their point of view but did not attempt to wreck the city, apart from the couple of dozen which one finds everywhere, but they had nothing to do with the main thrust of the demonstration. That was important.

It is equally important to recognise the most important sentence in the Minister of State's contribution which I guarantee will not be quoted by anyone in this House except by me because it goes against the prevailing narrative. He stated that public sector workers have taken a bigger hit in terms of earnings than their private sector counterparts. That goes against the narrative and will not be reported. They have taken a hit, there is peace and people are negotiating. That is very important.

People say we cannot afford the Croke Park agreement. What part of the Croke Park agreement can the country not afford? The Croke Park agreement will result in at least 25,000 job reductions and will generate savings of €1.2 billion per year. What part of that can we not afford? What part of that is bad news for the country? When people say we should get rid of the Croke Park agreement, how will they achieve those two objectives? They take the easy option but offer no solution. We have peace on the streets and a clear commitment.

Senator Phelan asked an important question with which the Minister of State did not deal, that is, what progress has been made to date on those two objectives? We will ask for the figures the next time we have this debate but I will also ask Mr. Fitzpatrick, when he comes to talk to Senator Phelan and others in January, to bring those figures. We are at least one third of the way in terms of the job savings but I cannot put a figure on the savings.

The last time we debated this I said it would provide more than €1 billion in savings, and that was before the Government said it. I reached that figure after some discussion with Mr. Fitzpatrick who did not want to put a figure on it for me because he is too honest a man. I said in the House that if it did not deliver more than €1 billion, the game was not worth the candle and that we would have to go in another direction.

The savings and the job reductions are two aspects but the third aspect are the efficiencies in terms of how business is done. I wish to restate some of the things on which the Minister of State touched. The first is the changes to the Garda rosters. I have been listening to people talk about trying to make changes to Garda rosters for ten years but this has now happened in two or three sectors of the Garda. What people said would never happen is now happening. That part of the implementation is being handled directly by Mr. Fitzpatrick. It is interesting to note he is getting down and dirty and is doing some of the work in some areas himself.

One of the most difficult areas in which to introduce change has been the prison regime. The Minister of State gave examples of two or three new prison areas which have been opened with brand new models of work practices within them. I cannot explain to anyone who has never been around a negotiating table what that means in terms of savings and how difficult it is to achieve. The fact it has been achieved is quite astonishing.

The education unions are negotiating a new contract. A new contract has never been negotiated for teachers and the Minister of State, Deputy Áine Brady, will be well aware of that. They have agreed to the equivalent of two additional weeks teaching and that is being put into contracts. That is extraordinary movement by any standard.

The Minister of State dealt with the health targets. The movement of community welfare officers to a new section in the Civil Service was handled directly by Mr. Fitzpatrick, but I was told that would never happen. It is an extraordinary achievement to have done that. This is a huge leap forward for us.

I refer to bonuses which are an extraordinarily useful incentive in the public and private sectors. They have been brought into disrepute by being badly, or by not being, implemented or by being used as a way to give away money. It is very important that the Government does not rule out the use of bonus payments as long as there is a paper trail for every penny paid out, that it is always conditional on previously agreed targets and that it is proved that those targets have been delivered. That is what it is about. It is a positive thing which has been brought into disrepute but let us not throw the baby out with the bath water.

I compliment Mr. Fitzpatrick on the progress he has made in implementing the Croke Park agreement and I look forward to introducing him to Senator Phelan and few others, perhaps over lunch. We will put the hard questions to him.