Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Seanadóirí ar fad a labhair ar an mBille. Dúradh go leor rudaí spéisiúla.

I thank all the Senators who contributed. I am sure they do not want me to go back over all the points they raised but there are a few issues on which I wish to touch. There is much talk about emigration. I checked outward migration figures, which I do not have with me but which I can provide to the Senator. The reality is that the net outward migration figure was 27,000 Irish people last year. There is quite an outward migration of non-Irish nationals, which is to be expected. However, there is no huge haemorrhage of citizens. For many years the number of Irish people returning exceeded the number of Irish leaving the country. In 2009 the figures were even and in 2010 there was a net outward migration of people. However, the figures are not as alleged. It is simple to take the total outward migration figures and say that there are a great number of people leaving the country. People are leaving the country but many of them never intended to stay in the first instance because they are not Irish, their roots are not here, their families are in their home country and they came on a temporary basis to work here, and regardless of whether the tiger economy had continued, they would have returned home.

There is a phobia at times among a certain section of our population regarding non-Irish people. No matter what I do or how often I disabuse people of some of the greater myths in our society, I hear the same myths again the next day, such as buggies being handed out like Smarties, that we buy cars for people, and that we feed dogs. I was also told the myth by a person that every Nigerian here is claiming for ten people, to which I replied that was fantastic news because that means there are only 264 Nigerians claiming jobseeker's allowance in the country. The actual figure is 2,600. That is the position if one were to check the facts.

There was also the famous ash cloud. We provided all the information on the number of applicants who did not claim benefits at that time. The information indicates that more than 80% of the people who did not claim on that day were the same in terms of those who do not claim every week of the year and they happen to be Irish. When one does an analysis and includes British nationals and other nationalities living here in receipt of social welfare benefit, who could not be flying here on cheap flights from Pakistan, Australia or whatever, one finds that the number of eastern Europeans was minuscule and was no different from the number any other week.

I asked a social welfare officer why they tolerate such applicants not turning up, and he said these are people in receipt of unemployment payments who are not greatest for turning up on time. He said they knew these people were not working and were in the country but were the type of person who would always forget their appointment and one had to have a benign view and believe nothing untoward was happening. The officers call in these applicants and sort them out. The myth continues to be kept alive, however, and I all I can say in this debate is that we do not pay money for buggies, we do not buy cars for people and everyone in the system is treated equally.

This goes to the heart of the issue concerning the habitual residency clause, HRC. Under EU law it is not possible to treat a citizen of Ireland any differently from a citizen of any other member state of the EU. If an Irish person comes home permanently and gives the correct information, there should not be a difference in terms of the HRC. Invariably I find in such cases that a person has come home to care for a relative and the person says that he or she has come home for a year or two, will return to where they came from or that his or her family is there. There is a problem in this respect in regard to the HRC, but in trying to address that problem, which I recognise and for which I have empathy, I must do so on an EU-wide citizenship basis, and that is the dilemma. We are rewriting the rules and I must do that consistently and within EU standards. I am willing to debate this issue to ascertain whether there is a way of resolving and improving it.

We have made a significant improvement in the process, without in any way compromising the HRC, in terms of the safe home programme. We helped those concerned to get us all the information we needed and we got an extra certification from them that they were satisfied that these people did not have any resources in any other country and that they were coming home permanently. The people who come home on the safe home programme are vulnerable emigrants who hit the hard times and came home to stay. They were very happy because we had told them exactly what was the required in terms of paperwork and showed them how to get the information needed to help us make a decision. Sometimes first time around people provide insufficient information.

With regard to rent allowance, it is true that traditionally we received relatively few personal public service, PPS, numbers, although the position has improved recently. That is not to say those in receipt of rent allowance were not tax compliant; we give all of the names and addresses of those receiving rent allowance from the Department to the Revenue Commissioners. Surveys are conducted and 70% to 80%, or even higher, are tax compliant. We are doing something basic as a first step in asking for PPS numbers. It will be very easy to send such numbers to the Revenue Commissioners and carry out data matching which should get us to a positon where there will virtually be 100% tax compliance.

There was an issue raised in the Dáil concerning tax clearance certificates, which, for a number of reasons, should possibly be included in the next phase. There are a number of issues to be dealt with. If a person produces a tax clearance certificate for a property that is to be rented, all it will state is that taxes have been properly paid up to that date. It will not prove that the person concerned will pay tax on the rent received for that property. There are certain issues to be dealt with in that respect. If the Revenue Commissioners know a person is renting a certain property, on which we provide information such as PPS numbers, it will be very simple for them to ensure the property in question is accounted for in a tax return. I cannot see how that is not foolproof in regard to personal income.

I have spoken to the Minister of State, Deputy Finneran, about reforming the sector. There are cases in which people refuse two or three offers of accommodation from the local authority, either under the rental accommodation scheme-----