Liam Twomey (Fine Gael)

Fair enough.

Reference is made in the plan to reforming the social welfare system and reducing social welfare payments. It appears this will lead to savings of €750 million, which equates to a 4% cut in the social welfare budget. If the Government is intent on protecting old age pensioners, there will be significant cuts for other social welfare recipients in next week's budget.

The Minister of State did not refer to getting people back to work or retraining them. There has been a great deal of talk from the Government side that this is going to be done and the usual flowery language has been used. However, a number of weeks ago I raised the issue of FÁS apprentices who had been working and been trained within companies which had gone out of business. The individuals concerned who may be two or three years into their apprenticeships are not now in a position to complete their training. A number of them are in limbo. If they could complete their training, they could go abroad for a couple of years to obtain work experience and then return when the economy picked up. If they go abroad now, they will be treated as unskilled workers. Many of them are on the cusp of becoming fully qualified tradespeople. The Government must stop waffling and instead take action in order to assist the people concerned and others who find themselves in a similar position.

The proposal to double the carbon tax is strange. I am aware of the probable source of this suggestion. Doubling the tax has the potential to hamper economic activity. Is this a wise move, particularly in the context of the potential knock-on effects for economic growth? We need to consider how we might stimulate the economy to the greatest degree possible rather than putting the brakes on in respect of future potential growth. The rate of economic activity has fallen dramatically from peak levels. Therefore, there is a need to review our policy on carbon credits, etc., in order to ensure we will not put people out of work unnecessarily.

The Government has not had much to say about water metering or the offer made to it by Siemens. When the State was in its infancy, the Ford Motor Company made an offer to the then Government to build concrete roads throughout Ireland as long as motor tax was not applied to its cars. This offer was turned down in favour of imposing a tax on motorists. Will the Minister of State outline the Government's view on the offer made by Siemens?

As Deputies in the Lower House pointed out, the matter of greatest import with regard to the loan the country is to receive relates to the need to provide a breakdown regarding the rate of interest that will be charged. The loan will come from four sources, namely, the National Pensions Reserve Fund, the European Union, the IMF and other European countries. I do not believe the Government has provided a breakdown on the rates of interest that will apply to each of these four elements of the loan. The people need to know what will happen in this regard. Some €50 billion of the loan will go towards funding the Government deficit during the next three years. If the economy does not grow and we are obliged to draw down all of this money - we will be obliged to do so because approximately €40 billion to €50 billion will be required during the next couple of years - we need to know what will be the likely rate of interest in two or three years time. The rate of interest we are obliged to pay could have a dramatic effect on our growth potential at that stage.

The Government entered into this deal on behalf of the people and it owes it to them to provide all the facts and figures in respect of the money it is borrowing. Prior to the bailout, Government representatives continually made the argument that we had enough money to keep the State going until next June. Given what they were saying, one would have thought we were going to win the national lottery at that point. It is obvious that what all those in government were considering was the fact that they would no longer be in power next June. There are, however, Members of both Houses who are thinking beyond that date and wondering about the rate of interest we are likely to have to pay on borrowings in 2012 and 2013.