David Norris (Independent)

With regard to amendment No. 4, I am curious to know what type of persons Senator Hannigan and the Labour Party have in mind for the functions that are involved. Perhaps, with reason, he would extend beyond the forces of the State - the State or its agencies - prohibition from testing, developing and producing uranium ammunition and armoured plate or from using, acquiring or disposing of depleted uranium in any way for military purposes. I wonder whether anyone other than prescribed or terrorist organisations or criminals would get involved in this type of thing. I would assume they might be covered by other aspects of the criminal law if they were so occupied.

I would have no difficulty with the amendment and I certainly support strongly its sentiments. I do not think anybody in the State should be messing around with this material. I support the intention of the amendment but I am curious to know what is the target of the amendment. Is there a feeling that there are people who are, as we speak, testing, acquiring or developing uranium ammunition, uranium armour-plate or other uranium weapons? I am reluctant to think so but perhaps I am just naive.

I completely endorse amendment No. 6. The Bill will be toothless if we do not have penalties. There is no point in stating something is wrong and that it is prohibited unless there are penalties attached to such behaviour. My reading of this very admirably concise Bill does not suggest to me that there are any and this would seem to be a serious omission. There may be a technical reason for this; I do not know. I certainly encourage the formulators of this legislation to examine the possibility of including some penalty. If we want to deter people just ink on paper will not be very effective, particularly if they are the type of people who are interested in manufacturing, using or employing uranium ammunition, uranium armour-plate or other uranium weapons. I suppose this would only come into effect because they are linked if they were people in addition to the State who were involved. On the other hand, people who are in the employ of the State might well involve themselves in this, despite the fact it was against the law and in that case they should be punished. I am not sure the State can punish itself but it can certainly punish its agents.

I did not have the opportunity to welcome the Minister of State. I saw him on television last night on a programme. The Minister of State's charming visage suddenly loomed at me out of the night and I expect he could have done with a bit of depleted uranium armour on that occasion.