Conor Lenihan (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)

I wish to thank all the Senators who contributed to this debate, which is both timely and relevant. I particularly welcome the praiseworthy comments made by Senator Donohoe about the innovation task force report, which I had the privilege to serve on. It is a lodestone document for developing Ireland out of recession and into recovery. It will help us to move up the proverbial value chain and develop high-end solutions, particularly by matching the intellectual creativity of our country with the newly emerging science technologies which are there to be utilised. Essentially, they reduce the distance between Ireland and the global marketplace. This is the key turning point concerning our economic recovery.

Two basic premises underlie the innovation task force document. One concerns how we can become a global location to entice creative and talented individuals, be they scientists or business people, who wish to commercialise intellectual property. We should become a location to do precisely that. Not only will we create some of this valuable intellectual property, but we will also attract people from other countries in Europe and elsewhere who will want to come here, in the same way that Google, Facebook and similar companies have located in Ireland because it is a good place in which to invest.

I saw that happen last week when I visited Irishtown where Betfair is establishing an office with 100 jobs. I met the company's chief executive on that occasion and we had a photocall. Out of curiosity, I asked him why he was coming to Ireland. He said he is locating here as he reckons Ireland is the best place in the world to establish a content-related, Internet-managed service company. Betfair handles 5 million transactions per day with 3 million registered customers around the world. The company has come here because we have skilled people and creative talent to match Betfair's expectation to continue to build and invest in that global business. It was a source of great pride for me to attend that event and announce the creation of 100 new jobs. I saw the chief executive's confident attitude to Ireland. It was a no-brainer for him to bring that business here.

I take Mr. Justice Charleton's judgment very seriously. He has described what is occurring with regard to the UPC issue and the court case generally as theft, and he is right. We should not use ambiguous words here. Copyright infringement is a form of theft and there is no point in pretending that there is an alternative narrative of democratic rights with regard to the abuse or exploitation of the author or copyright owner's material without permission. This level of ambiguity is unacceptable, particularly in Ireland where we are seeking to build a smart economy through using our intellectual or human capital. It is hugely important for us to recognise this.

Approximately eight years ago, the World Bank published a survey of the source of wealth of many nations. In Ireland's case, unusually, 83% of the country's wealth derived from its human and intellectual capital. We must take that empirical evidence into the equation when dealing with the vexed issues surrounding copyright theft, including downloading.

While many Senators' contributions focused on the music industry, we must also remember the film industry. Those are two significant sectors in which Ireland has managed to excel over the years. As a Government Minister, I found it worrying to hear somebody of the calibre of Paul McGuinness, the manager of U2, come out publicly on "Morning Ireland" some weeks ago expressing concern, even before this court decision, about what is happening to the music industry and his artists in particular. The organisation behind the very successful group U2, is building up other smaller bands for the marketplace. It is investing heavily in them because it is expensive to bring a garage-type band to the global market. We must ensure the situation is conducive for such developments.

In case anybody thinks the Attorney General or myself have been tardy in this matter, I should remind the House that the opposite is the case. When I was appointed as Minister of State, I was so concerned about what was happening in this sector that I called in the Internet service providers within weeks of taking up this portfolio. I appealed to them to collaborate and reach an agreement with music and other rightsholders' organisations. The most sensible way for us to proceed is not by having a whole new panoply of legislation and regulation. The lesson of the last ten years is that we over-regulated a great many of our industrial sectors. My first instinct therefore is not to regulate or legislate. I believe that the industries involved, be they Internet service providers, telecommunications companies, the music industry or the film industry, must get together and reach an agreement.

I was impressed that one of the music rights organisations did come to an agreement with one telecommunications company, namely, Eircom. I salute the bravery of Eircom's executives for entering into that arrangement. It started in July and we will have to wait and see how it works out in practice. This kind of voluntary agreement between the industries involved, and in dispute in this essential area, is far preferable than going down the road of further regulation or legislation.

We are talking about theft in this regard. As Senator Ryan rightly said we are also talking about the alternative view of young people who like to download music and do not regard it as theft. It is theft, however, and there is no point in pretending otherwise. I accept and applaud Senator Ryan's efforts to put that balancing item into the equation. We cannot, Canute-like, restrict the onward march of the world wide web. It is a free medium, although in this regard the word "free" does not mean not for payment.

This is one of the great challenges for entrepreneurs and others who wish to use this new, emergent and dynamic technology. It is a big struggle for some content providers to find a method of making it pay for them and their business. That in itself is a broader challenge.

Within weeks of being in my current job, and before this High Court ruling by Mr. Justice Charleton, I invited the Internet service providers and telecommunications companies to my office. We had a long discussion, although it was not very profitable. I found it hugely frustrating, annoying and disappointing that when I put down the challenge to them in my Kildare Street office, they were tardy in responding. Psychologically or otherwise, they were not inclined to move towards the sort of recommendations that the majority of Senators have put forward in this debate. They seemed to oppose the three-strike, graduated response and all the other formulae.

To be candid, the problem is that there is no model country in this regard. There is no paragon of virtue regarding the theft of intellectual property. France has moved in a prescriptively legislative manner, but there are privacy and confidentiality issues involved. That is not the role model we should be examining. On the other hand, in the latter period of Labour rule in the UK, my old friend, Lord Peter Mandelson, introduced legislation, which I understand is being challenged in the British courts.

I am putting down a challenge again today to all those involved in this business. The last thing I want to do is provide further legislation and regulation. If they cannot come to a sensible arrangement however, I will have to legislate and examine the matter in a deeper, more far-seeing way. I have tried my best to bring people together. They should get together. In the meantime, I will meet the Attorney General and discuss in detail the optimum response of the State. I wish to protect intellectual property. It is vital the State provides a level of protection to intellectual property and rightsholders which they are entitled to enjoy.

We stood in Farmleigh and listened to fantastic Irish businessmen from all over the world, including individuals who brought us Riverdance and many of the great global success stories over the past 20 years, including U2, and all were at one about the smart economy. There is much jargon and nonsense generated about the smart economy. It is about productivity but in Ireland's case it is about linking and matching our creative talents to emerging technology. We must maximise the speed to which we can go to market with new products and services online. It is an exciting opportunity for Ireland. People remember the bad old days when academics, writers, authors and commentators spoke about Ireland's peripheral nature relative to the European Union. Cheap airfares and the Internet mean the distance between Ireland and the rest of the world is pretty much irrelevant. If we are to maximise our position in the emerging world, enabled by technology where distance is reduced, we must protect the rights holder and the creative person who comes up with the new idea.

I pledge to the House to come up with a solution. If the industry and the players in the sector are not prepared to reach agreement, we will legislate and regulate even though I set out at the beginning of my contribution that I did not wish to do this. I addressed this matter early on and I am disappointed by the responses to date. Some people have been critical of the music organisation that conducted a bilateral arrangement with Eircom. It is positive because it is the sign of a company taking the issue seriously and agreeing to police and patrol it. The more of that, the better. I am the last person to wish to impose more legislative, bureaucratic or administrative burdens on any industry in this country but I promise to return to the House within weeks, once I am appraised of the views of the Attorney General on this matter.

I prefer not to go into detail on this case because these are sensitive issues. If I was to disclose the internal thinking on this matter, it might not help in the context of the courts system and the cases that may emerge. I thank the rightsholders, the ISPs and the people who genuinely engaged with me. It was a source of great disappointment that we could not get agreement through voluntary efforts from the industries involved.