Alex White (Labour)

It has been agreed for years but where is it? We do not need to change the Constitution for any of these issues. The Minister of State, Deputy Áine Brady, asked what the Seanad itself is doing about making itself relevant. It is a perfectly reasonable question and it should be answered. As a Chamber, we are not doing anything about it. We stand condemned. I do not take the blame because I believe it is principally a matter for the Government to bring forward the proposals. It has not done so.

I commend Senator O'Toole on his remarks. There is no question but that the future of the Seanad is on the line. Its survival, in terms of its place in our political system, is open to question. If it is possible to have reform instead of abolition, we must realise that much of what is in the motion describes the kind of reform of which I am in favour. It draws attention to the sorts of issues we should be addressing. I remain sceptical as to whether we can reform this Chamber on its own. We require considerable reform across all our democratic institutions in the near future. We need a much stronger Parliament, as everyone is saying, and we need a stronger committee system. I doubt we can or should be trying to address only one aspect of the reform required.

We must ask ourselves what the Seanad is for. It is implied in the motion that we do not want to be a second Dáil or a shadow Dáil. What would be the point in that? What is the point in having a mini-Dáil upstairs? The Seanad should have a separate, credible and identifiable role but it is not really clear what that is at present. The only constitutional role there is for the Seanad is to pass legislation.

When Senator Ross was speaking, he implied it did not matter one way or another whether we pass legislation or not. Passing legislation is the only role we have under the Constitution. It may come as a surprise to Members to know that between the Seanad election in mid-2007 and the middle of 2009, only 40% of the Seanad's sitting time was devoted to legislation. Unfortunately, I do not have figures for 2010. The Order of Business took up 25% of the entire sitting time of the House during the period in question. There cannot be many parliaments in the world whose orders of business account for 25% of sitting time.

The Order of Business is an opportunity for Members to raise topical issues. However, as Senator Norris stated, it is a bit much that we do not have a more structured and realistic way to have regular daily debates than engaging in the fiction of having them on the Order of Business. It does not make sense. This is a matter we could consider but we just do not seem to be capable of doing so or want to do so. It ought to be considered.

Since we resumed six weeks ago, we have not had any Government legislation at all. That is an extraordinary state of affairs. It is pretty extraordinary, therefore, that the Minister of State asked about what the House could do to become more efficient. Many people have questions to answer.

One possible answer to the question of Seanad reform, which will not be very popular, is that rather than panicking about sitting three days per week and trying to ensure we fill the time with business every day to take away the bad look, we should sit less often. This should have a financial implication for Members. Members should be paid for the time they sit here. I propose this for consideration.