Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh.

Listening to Senator Mooney's remarks I was struck by the fact we must live in different worlds. If one walks or drives around the city and county of Cork, or even around the capital city or many of the main provincial towns, one will see "To Let" signs aplenty in idle and empty buildings. While I agree with the Minister of State's sentiment that we need a banking system, there will be more pain and misery for the people in the budget in December as a consequence of the banks being bailed out.

The Minister of State talked about "The core of the problem being the scale of reckless lending that took place". That is a good analysis, but he neglected to put in a couple of other lines where at its core is the lack of accountability, the lack of responsibility by those who ran the banks, the lack of action by the regulator, poor political judgment, and the fact the Minister of State's colleagues in Cabinet were cheerleaders as this country plummeted into a financial crisis and waved the pom-poms in the tents in Galway. The Minister of State can come in here and give all the fine speeches he wants, but let him go out to the streets where the people are not only punch drunk, but are angry, frustrated and fearful. They see no light at the end of the proverbial tunnel and they want hope.

I canvas, as I am sure he does, four days a week and I meet young people, middle-aged people and grandparents. I will never forget the week after this "black Thursday" was brought upon us. I will never forget the pain and anger of the people I met in Cork. I am struck by the image of grandparents who are now bailing out their children and looking after their grandchildren, and other grandparents who have seen their grandchildren emigrate.

We live in a changed Ireland that has been sullied and disgraced by a few. The banking system almost brought the country down, to paraphrase The New York Times. The Minister of State stated what former President Clinton said, "If you don't have a banking system, you're toast". This Government forgot that, to quote the former President's other famous line, "It's the economy, stupid". It is the economy, and the Government forgot that. The Government doled out money with great panache over the ten years of the Celtic tiger. It threw money here and lost sight of what it should be about. The Minister of State can take all the republican principles that Fianna Fáil is great at talking about, but the Government threw it away. They binned it at the risk of having three terms in Government so a former Taoiseach can go around the country with his chest out saying, "I did it my way", for ten years and more.

They can blame Lehman Brothers and the world recession which were part of it, but the political reality is that the ordinary person in Ireland who did not engage in reckless behaviour and did not go out on a limb is now being pummelled. The middle class of Ireland is being crucified. Let us call it as we see it and forget about all the hypothesis and intellectual arguments. That is the reality.

I agree with the Minister of State that we need a banking system and we need better regulation. I do not have all the answers, but it is an absolute disgrace. He is in south Tipperary, Senator MacSharry is in Sligo-North Leitrim and I am in Cork where the ordinary people are apoplectic with rage. They do not see a Government in charge because the Minister, Deputy Brian Lenihan, has got it wrong at every step of the way. The media created a cult around this great Minister, who has not got any figure right in the two years since he became Minister. I understand why we must create international confidence in the bond markets, but it is not merely about international confidence. We must give the people confidence. We must give them hope. They see none of that at present.

All they see is pain to be inflicted, and they must pay for it. There is not one person being held to account. I read the Minister of State's speech where he referred to Henry VII and the Russian oligarchs. He is correct and I could not disagree with him, but we have not had a person held to account. The people want those who are responsible to be held to account. They want to see justice. That is one part of what they want. We have inflicted on a generation a millstone around their necks. What has been the legacy of the Celtic tiger era? I really hope the Irish people will see justice because they deserve it. They see people going to the courts in America, they see people getting big fat pensions and severance payments and they see the courts being used as a stalling process, and they want to see - as the Minister of State mentioned in his remarks about the French and American republics - not this slow process but swift justice. That might be simplistic, but that is where the Irish people are at and they deserve it because they have been let down by a few. It really is extraordinary.

Are we at the end of the matter? Can someone tell us that there will be no more coming back to pay out more money for the banks? Can we be told that "black Thursday" was the end of it?

While I am fully in favour of restoring international confidence in Ireland, let us for one moment dwell on what the banks and Government have done. We must consider the small businesses that are in trouble, the houses that have been repossessed and the people who are in mortgage arrears. People are experiencing fear and trepidation every time a registered letter arrives or there is a knock on the door in case the bailiffs have arrived or someone is delivering a summons. This is a genuine fear experienced by many ordinary people.

The Minister of State and a number of Senators stated the banks did not collapse. The banking system may as well have collapsed because the banks have gone to ground and are no longer lending. In Private Members' business I will discuss a letter I received from a person in business who is struggling.

The Minister of State, whose bona fides I accept because I respect him as a decent and honourable person, referred to reforms. How could a Government allow people to be treated so callously and badly? The former Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern, has stated the Financial Regulator did not ask to meet him. As the man in charge, Deputy Ahern was driving the bus, while the current Taoiseach, Deputy Cowen, was the Minister for Finance. Are the trappings of power such that these individuals cannot relate to reality?

Many people are unemployed, many homes have been wrecked and many livelihoods placed in jeopardy as a result of recklessness. I am not an economist or intellectual but I live in the real world in which people are suffering, businesses are struggling and public servants are being hammered and asked to go to the well. Will the Minister of State offer people some hope and accountability, which is the least they deserve? To paraphrase Hamlet, is it so rotten in the state of Denmark that we cannot have hope and accountability?

The Minister of State made a fine speech, with which I do not disagree. Will he explain the reason taxpayers are being asked to endure hardship and suffering? The answer is that Fianna Fáil and its cronies allowed the crisis to happen. That is the political reality and while the Minister of State will no doubt attempt to rebut me, the Cabinet, the Fianna Fáil Party, its appointees and the regulatory system it oversaw were the cheerleaders for the demise of this country. We were lucky Ireland did not fall over a cliff. I only hope the country will recover.

Since last Christmas, 16 of my past pupils, who include graduates, PhDs, postgraduates and trained craftspeople, have contacted me seeking references before emigrating. We need accountability, not only the restoration of confidence in the bond markets. People must be given hope. We need a general election to clear out the current lot once and for all.