Fiona O'Malley (Independent)

The Labour Party has the luxury of not having to face up to the reality of the consequences of decisions it took. If we had all followed the course of action taken by the Labour Party - this is where I applaud Fine Gael - there would have been a collapse and the IMF would have been in the country by now.

Deputy Gilmore and his Labour Party colleagues can surmise and reflect, with the benefit of hindsight, on what would have happened. There is no question but that the collapse would have occurred. We would already have given up our sovereignty. That is completely forgotten in the debates that are taking place now, partly because the collapse did not occur, fortunately. Of course it has been difficult and painful for citizens of all ages, including taxpayers. Responsibility for paying for all of this will fall on the shoulders of people who are not paying tax at the moment because they are too young to work. Everyone keeps talking about taxpayers but we should refer in the first instance to the citizens of this country.

The Minister of State quoted President Clinton's recent statement that "if you don't have a banking system, you're toast". One of our problems is that the justifiable public anger about what has happened has led to calls for people to be put behind bars so they can pay for the mistakes they have made. People have the right to make such demands and I would not criticise them for doing so. While we should not interfere with the processes of law and order, it is frustrating that they move so slowly. People in other jurisdictions have been serving sentences for some time. We need to do something about our system. People's anger will not be quelled until those who are responsible for this crisis are seen to be paying for it and taking responsibility in the eyes of the law. If the law is to have any meaning, it should be that when one falls foul of it, one is subject to it. The sooner that happens, the better.

Those who are angry sometimes fail to recognise that the Government has no cause to carry for the bankers of this country. If we had needed to support or bail out our economy in the same way, that would have affected every one of us. When I meet those who are protesting outside the gates of Leinster House, I can understand why they ask why we are supporting the bankers rather than ordinary people. When the economy is thriving, all of us enjoy the benefits. We cannot have an economy without a secure banking system. Many people have suggested there is one rule for the banks and another rule for the customers of the banks, particularly mortgage holders. There needs to be some kind of recognition that people are in difficult straits. I do not think it is in the interests of the banks to foreclose on people who are in mortgage arrears and having difficulties.

We are blessed that a good regulator has been appointed to the banking system. He is clear about what he wants to do. The changes that have been made to the Central Bank governance structures are to be welcomed. We all agree that very good people have been appointed in key banking positions. We should listen when the regulator looks for support. When I was listening to the radio over the weekend, I heard somebody make the point that the praise we are all heaping on the regulator needs to be accompanied by demonstrable supports and resources and the introduction of the legislative changes he is seeking. I ask the Minister of State to remind his Government colleagues of the need to meet the needs of the regulator, who has come here to do a difficult job. We are glad he has taken on that task with such gusto. It is not enough to pay lip service to his needs. We need to resource that office properly. We may now be paying the cost of not having resourced that office sufficiently in the past. We need to support the regulator and the people associated with him. I hate to identify singularly with the office holder, who plays one part in an important function. We need to be cognisant of that.

The Government, particularly the Minister for Finance and the Taoiseach, is to be applauded for the difficult decisions it has taken. Everybody now has the benefit of hindsight. Ten days ago, the Minister for Finance starkly pointed out that he is responsible for making the final decisions on these matters. That is the difference between the position of those in government and our position. We can pontificate and surmise about what might have happened, but the Minister, Deputy Brian Lenihan, has to make decisions and live with the consequences of them. We do not tend to appreciate sufficiently how difficult it is to make tough decisions when one's back is against the wall and to live with the consequences of those decisions. That is why certain commentators should be more charitable at times. I am always wary of academics, in particular. Although the Minister of State has a learned background, he is not strictly an academic.