Fiona O'Malley (Independent)

I would like to continue without interruption. I find the current system offensive, if that is not too strong a word. If we are to be democratic, we should be elected by the people. That is what it comes down to. We need a different system of electing Senators. It is amusing to hear Senators speaking about their constituencies. The only constituencies they have are their representative bodies. Why do we continue to perpetuate the involvement of such interest groups when in every other sphere of life or element of politics we say we do not favour interest groups?

The one welcome aspect of the introduction of this legislation, if the Minister of State will permit me to say so, is that it might shame the Government into admitting that the Seanad reform which everyone was saying would be done will not take place during the lifetime of this Seanad. A great deal of work on Seanad reform was done during the previous Seanad but we have very little to show for it, which is not something of which we can be proud. For that reason alone, Senator Cummins has done some service by introducing this Bill. We need to think about whether we are serious about reforming the Seanad. It is high time we started the process of reform. Everyone should be elected by the people, rather than on the basis of their education, for example. I propose that the system should involve something like a regional body.

I accept the Minister of State's position. I think he is right not to accept this Bill. We do not need piecemeal changes that make more room on the trough, which is essentially what this legislation proposes. I do not think that is the right way to reform the Seanad. If we are to change it, we should change it fundamentally. I accept that the university panel system may have some merit, as those elected under that system have contributed strongly to each successive Seanad. None the less, it is fundamentally wrong that a person can be given a vote on the basis of his or her level of education. We cannot stand over it. Senator O'Toole admitted it is unconscionable that to provide representation, he must stand on an elitist panel. There is much to be said for his honesty.

The legislation proposed by Senator Cummins highlights the need for fundamental change to take place. I hope it will trigger the introduction of legislative reform by the Minister of State and his senior colleague at the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. People are entitled to be disappointed that more fundamental Seanad reform has not taken place to date. I hope the Government will attend to the matter with greater diligence as seo amach.