Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit, an Teachta Haughey.

Senator Leyden's second last comment is worth dwelling on because people do not have confidence in the Tánaiste or the Government to deliver meaningful change. I am glad Senator Leyden did not join with his colleague Senator McDonald in pouring scorn on the members of the vocational education committees, who work tirelessly and who serve on boards of management, not for remuneration or travel expenses, but to do what is best for the parents, children and staff or the school, and that should be put on record.

I spent four years teaching in Cork county VEC in St. Aidan's Community College. Those were four excellent years in which I learnt a great deal and where there was excellent partnership between students, parents and teachers, the board of management and the Cork county VEC. Indeed, under the principal, Dr. Frank Steele, there was a strong ethos of education, which is the primary focus of the vocational education committees.

It is worth noting that the VEC sector is not only about one facet or sphere of education, but covers a multitude. For example, Cork county VEC includes Youthreach, back to education for adults and outdoor education, and there is added the crazy situation where it administers grant scholarships and school transport.

Cork city VEC, which is also a progressive VEC, includes three community colleges, Nagle Community College, Mahon, and Terence MacSwiney Community College and, in the city centre, Coláiste Daibhéid. Taking the facet of post-primary education and the further education which is done in the college of commerce, St. John's Central College and Coláiste Stiofán Naofa, which is the third-level sphere added to second level, it shows that the vocational education committee in the case of Cork city provides a diverse programme catering for over 4,000 in PLCs and 7,000 in adult education. When one also looks at the work being done in Nagle Community College, Terence MacSwiney Community College and Coláiste Daibhéid at post primary, it shows that reform of the vocational education committee is necessary.

Reform is about reducing bureaucracy. As Deputy Brian Hayes, my party's former education spokesperson, stated, it is about safeguarding the front line. I was pleased the Minister of State, Deputy Haughey, stated in his speech there would be no outside quango, bureaucracy or agency to drive this change. That is to be welcomed.

The following statistics may be of interest to the Minister of State. In 1968-69, there were 182,000 students in second-level education whereas in 2008-09, there are approximately 341,000 students. That is a massive quantum leap in second level education when compared with the number at first level, which remained almost static increasing only from 489,000 to 498,000. Also by comparison, the number at third level jumped sevenfold from 21,000 in 1968-69 to 141,000 in 2008-09. My point is there are now more people in education and we need to deliver, in the front line of the classroom, on the provision of proper, directed and resourced education.

Councillor Jim Corr, a former Deputy Lord Mayor and Lord Mayor of Cork and a member of the City of Cork VEC, stated in a good paper that historical development of Irish education has led to a highly centralised system rather than to the development of strong local bodies which would seem to be the norm elsewhere. That is an accurate comment. We must allow local democracy to have its say.

I do not agree with Senator Doherty's analysis that members of Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil or the Labour Party are excluding Sinn Féin from the vocational education committees for reasons connected with expenses. That is not the case. I do not know anyone for whom expenses were the reason for serving on the board of a VEC or school. They do so because they want to serve their respective communities.

Restructuring should not be introduced purely to save costs or reduce the number of vocational education committees. The purpose of the measure must be to realign the VECs in a manner that addresses the weaknesses in the system and results in a properly resourced system that meets the needs of teachers, students, staff and parents. We must not lose sight of the fact that the functions and objective of the education system is to educate and train. Through his involvement in County Cavan Vocational Education Committee, Senator Wilson will be fully aware that we must never stop providing training and retraining and offering educational opportunities to all.

We need strong local governance of robust bodies which operate in a system which delivers results. The location of offices does not matter, although the merger of the VECs will present challenges and difficulties.

The Department's White Paper refers to strategic planning. Vocational education committees are community based and have deep roots in local communities, with their members drawn from among local elected representatives, as well as representatives of teachers, parents and local communities. According to Mr. Michael Moriarty, the general secretary of the Irish Vocational Education Association, the "cornerstone of the VECs' success to date has been their deep-rooted local engagement in terms of services and supports."

We must collaborate with all stakeholders to make the amalgamation a success. It must not be done purely for budgetary reasons or to achieve a certain figure on a balance sheet. Its purpose must be to deliver positive outcomes. We need a well resourced education system that students leave having acquired a good education and in which staff are adequately rewarded and recognised for their professional role.

Senator O'Relly posed a number of questions. I am concerned about VEC staff at the lower end of the payscale, specifically ancillary staff, caretakers and administrators in schools and VEC offices. What will happen to them? We must be conscious of those on the lower rungs of the ladder because those on the top rungs never lose out. Let us not overlook those working hard at the bottom end of the system.

It is interesting that the Government has decided that City of Cork and County Cork Vocational Education Committees will remain separate. The decision demonstrates that Cork has a good education system.

I look forward to further discussion and analysis of the proposal before us. This is only the beginning of a process that must be managed and handled properly.