Lisa McDonald (Fianna Fail)

I am delighted the House has this opportunity to discuss VECs. Thus far, the debate has been a little unbalanced in that it is a discussion about the boards of the VECs and there has been great interest in how many elected members will be retained on the VECs. I do not know how relevant this is to the customers, as Senator Quinn put it, namely, the students and parents. Parents are voting with their legs by not sending their children to VEC schools. I do not believe for one minute that is an elitist comment. I want to make it clear that I am not an educational snob. I have served on County Wexford VEC, which is an example of poor administration if ever there was one. In my political career to date, I have encouraged children who have failed in education to return to the system. I commit myself to that daily. I am proud of that work. As the daughter of a teacher, I intrinsically and fundamentally believe in education. Although I honestly think the VEC system has outlived its usefulness, I should mention that some brilliant work is being done by VECs through the vocational training opportunities scheme and the Youthreach programme, for example. Fundamental concepts like adult education and lifelong learning are being developed by the VECs to bring people back into second chance education.

I felt a little jealous as I listened to Senator O'Reilly discussing the excellent provision that is being made by County Cavan VEC. I have discussed the matter with Deputy Conlon too. I accept that some VECs are superb and provide superb services. That is not being done as part of a national policy, however. It depends on the ethos, energy and drive of the chief executive officer of the VEC in question. It may also depend on a lack of political infiltration in the county in question. I do not know very much about the Cavan model but I know that County Wexford VEC is swamped by petty political interventions, for example, on the part of people who are trying to get on certain boards, such as interview boards, or to have certain costs, such as travel expenses, met. That is why I was jealous when I heard about the services being provided in Cavan.

As a republican, I firmly believe every child in this country should be treated equally. I do not accept for a minute that children from disadvantaged areas are being pushed into VECs because they cannot get places in other schools, even if such schools would better suit their needs. The VEC system was established to give vocational training to people who are not academically minded, if that is the right phrase to use, and to ensure such people can use their other intelligence. People who were good with their hands, for example, were given training in carpentry and woodwork. When other secondary schools started to provide such subjects in the 1970s, it was clear this was no longer a unique function of the VECs. We need to examine where the VEC system is going. Do we need VECs to run secondary schools at all? Is a different model needed in this modern era to get certain categories of student through the education system in order that they can provide better lives for themselves, their children and their parents, who should not still be dealing with them in later life? That is the reality and the truth. It is disappointing that no one has spoken about this aspect of the matter to date. I could speak about it ad nauseam if more time were available to me.

There is a need for a survey of enrolment in VECs, for example, to ascertain how the numbers stack up in schools with brilliant teachers. The Minister of State said the fundamental reason for the amalgamation of VECs is that student numbers are falling. I am not sure we need we need to amalgamate the VECs. We should start by cutting the dross from the VECs. A layer of staff might not be needed when the county and town VECs merge. We should be honest and start with voluntary redundancies and other ways of cutting expenditure. I understand that officials from County Wexford VEC went to Jersey last year to attend a seminar on bongo drums. I do not think taxpayers' money was well spent in that instance. I do not know how it was supposed to prevent a child in a disadvantaged part of County Wexford from dropping out of school. It was ridiculous.

We need to examine all elements of the VECs to see where money is being wasted or is seeping out. The bottom line is that parents will send their children to schools that successfully deliver services. I am aware of children in Wexford town who travel to schools in New Ross and Enniscorthy each day because they do not feel served by the VEC in Wexford town. I do not criticise the VEC school in Bridgetown, the ethos of which is more like that of a community college. It seems that VEC schools perform better when there is less interference. We need to look at that. I am sick of listening to Senators asking how many elected members will remain on the boards of VECs. The reality is that most politicians who are on the boards of VECs are failed politicians who had seats but no longer have them. They wanted a little bit of recompense after losing their local authority seats.