Feargal Quinn (Independent)

I would like to share time with Senator Doherty. I welcome the Minister of State. I am concerned about his words. They are not strong enough. If we were running a business and we found we were taking in far less than is going out, we would have to reduce our costs. We would go to our customers and employees and tell them we could not survive. Somehow or other we would find a way to convince them to change. That has been done well with the Croke Park agreement and most of the unions have been willing to come along and offer to do something about it. Change is never easy and while I am in danger of being accused of denigrating public service employees, I believe a number of them did not understand the gravity of the situation and that we cannot survive otherwise.

A few years ago it was highlighted that teachers, when they came back in September after taking three months' holidays, were and still are unwilling to give up one evening for parent-teacher meetings, which means that workers need to give up a day's pay or part of a day's pay to hear how their children are getting on at school. There is no understanding among many in the public sector about how the world operates. The public sector costs approximately €16 billion each year, which we cannot afford and must find savings. The McCarthy report recommended 17,000 job cuts in the public sector and changes in a raft of special allowances and other benefits. There has been no real movement and there have been no job threats. The Croke Park agreement sought no compulsory redundancies or further pay cuts and promised that job security would continue more or less to be guaranteed. It is amazing to consider that even with the reforms in the public sector, the pay cuts might be reversed anyway. Unions such as the Teachers Union of Ireland remain totally opposed to their members working an extra hour a week. Last year's CSO figures indicate that the public sector average weekly wage was €960 and the private sector wage was €630. That gives some indication of the disconnection between the two. People need to be much more patriotic. There is a need for patriotism at this time and instead of asking where the bailout is, they need to realise they have a job and show they are willing to sacrifice something to help the country at this time.

Let us consider what happened in Latvia recently where everyone had to take a pay cut of approximately 40% when the IMF arrived. That could well happen to us; it is no longer a question of crying wolf. If those men in the black coats arrive in Dublin Airport, we might find ourselves taking steps that are far worse, as Latvia had to do. Latvia managed to get back very quickly and that is the hope for here.

It is incredible the public sector pay and pension bill increased by €6 billion, which equates to approximately double the savings we need to find in the next budget. As Dr. Colm McCarthy recently wrote: "[I]f the budgetary correction is ducked the alternative is an IMF/European bailout, which would mean the loss of economic sovereignty and huge reputational damage." Our economy was in a worse state in the 1980s and we managed to get out of it and did well in the years that followed. Let us not talk ourselves into saying that we cannot get out of this. We can get out of it, but it will not be easy and we need to take steps to do so. The reforms mentioned by Senator O'Toole are now in our hands and we need to make them. It is not just about pay. It is very much about pay and other reforms in the public sector. I believe we can do it. Let us put our hearts into it.