Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)

This comes back to the question of fraud. At times, we underestimate the safeguards we have in our arrangements. As a Deputy I have dealt with social welfare appeals officers for years and the funny thing is that I cannot go near them now. Until I came into this great job I often went to the social welfare appeals office or sent someone from my office. I always found the appeals system to be very benign, informal and fair. One is told what all the issues are. In the changes we are making, whereby if one refuses either a job or suitable training opportunities there is a penalty, one must take it that we are doing so because we need to clamp down on those who never seem to be available no matter what is offered to them. Therefore, they seem to be too busy doing something else. We have had much talk about fraud this afternoon. As far as I am concerned, one has to have some sanction against such people. The intention is to use the savings to give activation and better opportunities to those who are genuinely unemployed - who are the vast majority - and move forward. I cannot see that it is fair and reasonable that society must run with its hands tied behind its back all the time in dealing with people who never seem to be available.

I know of people in receipt of social welfare payments who, to be quite honest, are not employable even on a scheme. They are very few in number but they exist. Chasing them is a waste of time and would serve neither society nor the individuals involved. Now that we are introducing various activation schemes, I would like to take a systematic approach. Everyone, or at least the vast majority, in receipt of jobseeker's benefit is by definition probably employable unless he or she had a breakdown, in which case he or she should really be on illness benefit. Therefore, it is reasonable to engage in activation people who go over the threshold from jobseeker's benefit to jobseeker's allowance. Every reasonable person who is genuinely unemployed would welcome any type of social activity that was reasonably suited to their gifts rather than sitting mindlessly at home all day, every day.