Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)

As I stated, I was a little taken aback when I found that some of the groups were reluctant in this regard. They suggested it would place an onus on vulnerable persons. However, I do not perceive it in that way because there is adequate accommodation available and those who find it difficult to find accommodation should be given assistance. Once it is known that one either gives one's PPS number or one will not be able to rent one's property, particularly while there is a glut in the market, the numbers will be forthcoming. I am interested in hearing Members' views in this regard.

A second point is that having made checks, my Department provides data for the Revenue Commissioners, on which they engage in data matching. The rate of compliance with the tax law is very high, at approximately 88%. Consequently, there is a high rate of compliance and there is not a large number of landlords who are not paying their taxes, according to the data being matched. The good news is that although my Department is receiving a much lower number of PPS numbers, when the names and addresses are forwarded and there is data matching, the compliance level is high, which is important. However, it should be at 100%.

I wish to discuss this issue with the Private Residential Tenancies Board because it is very important that when someone rents a property, particularly when he or she receives State aid in doing so, the law is fully complied with by the landlord. While my Department does not have a direct relationship with the landlord, there should be a method, whereby it would make sure the landlord was complying with the law on registration. In this regard, the question on the standard of accommodation, etc. should be basic, but that is the responsibility of the Private Residential Tenancies Board. However, it is important to tie together these matters as best we can to ensure a better standard of accommodation is provided and that people are not renting substandard accommodation.

Other issues arise in respect of when one should pay. There is discretion to pay deposits when it is considered necessary. In many cases, it is not needed, as a person who rents a property has sufficient money for this purpose. Alternatively, in some cases, people must rent for a while before being placed on the housing list and so on.

The other issue to which Senator Bradford referred is valid. Some persons have been in receipt of rent supplement for far longer than two years. The reason this is happening is complex and it is not completely due to the failure of local authorities to provide housing. In some cases, people have rented good accommodation, are comfortable in it and have a good relationship with their landlord. They are living in a good area and do not particularly want what is being offered by the local authority because they might consider that they would be moving from a mixed to a socially segregated area. There are many complex reasons associated with this issue.

That said, I intend to discuss this matter with my colleagues during the holidays when one will have an opportunity to discuss issues that sometimes can be difficult to discuss when the Dáil is sitting. My gut feeling is that in an ideal world one should move to the rental accommodation scheme after a certain period. In addition - I acknowledge I am straying as far or perhaps further than Senator Bradford - I believe in the provision of integrated housing. I refer to RAPID programme areas and the areas in which there are the greatest levels of deprivation in our society, regardless of the town in question, and compare the chances children have when growing up in rural Ireland, irrespective of parental circumstances, against those of children in urban areas. Segregation in our cities and towns has been an utter disaster; one could get much better outcomes in more mixed societies. The question on the reason children born in certain areas of our towns have from the day they are born a much lower chance of, for example, finishing second level or going on to third level education, have a much higher chance of winding up addicted to drugs or in prison than those born in other areas warrants wider debate. This is not fault of the child, as all newborn children are equal. Part V of the Planning and Development Act 2000 was a very good measure because it moved in the direction of mixed housing. I suspect that one reason people are hanging on to rent supplement is some parents perceive short-term renting as offering a better outcome for their children than perhaps being accommodated in a segregated housing estate. Moreover, the statistics bear out the point that they could be correct.

On the other hand, I do not agree with the German model. While I have nothing against long-term leasing, whatever suits the Germans suits them. There are two points we must consider on housing, one of which is that, for some reason, the Irish do not respect things they do not own in the same way as they respect things they own. Those of us who have canvassed in housing estates could tell the purchased houses from the rented houses. We all know this can be done. Ownership is fundamental in respect of this Bill.

I concur with the theory that people who own property respect it, feel part of society and are more likely to be contributors to voluntary organisations. Ownership changes one's psychological and social position and one's self-worth. I am still very old-fashioned in my belief in this regard. When people advocate newfangled social theories, they often want to try them on the less well off. I always say that if it is such a great idea, we should see whether the very rich opt for it, and that if they do the rest of us will consider it. Many people who are fairly well off are very quick to suggest others should do things they would not dream of doing themselves. We should always be a little wary of this syndrome. When one meets people working in planning units in local authorities, for example, they are dead set against rural houses, but when one inquires as to where they live, one finds they are living in them. I will say no more on that.