Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)

If such a person has a titim tubaisteach in income, last year might have shown a profit. This would not entitle a person to a payment but the position may be different this year. In that case the rule is not absolute. I have answered innumerable parliamentary questions about this. If one can prove that the income this year will be nil, one is still entitled to jobseeker's allowance. I had a case where a person obtained management accounts that showed clearly that in the previous four months there was so little trading, a negligible income was generated. The simple rule is once there is satisfactory documentary evidence that, for example, a single person's income for the current year will be less than the threshold, depending on his or her family circumstances, he or she will receive the payment. He or she is entitled to €196 a week and if he or she can prove his or her income will only be €100 a week, for example, he or she will be paid €96 a week. That is clear. The difficulty arises where the discretion comes in. He or she must satisfy the deciding officer that is the case and he or she can appeal. If an individual had a large income the previous year which has suddenly collapsed, he or she must come up with proof such as the loss of a contract. In a simple case, he or she might have had a good contract last year with a company, supplier or purchaser and can prove it has disappeared, which gives him or her a clear-cut case when dealing with the deciding officer. If he or she has lost a job here or there, he or she would have to come up with adequate proof that he or she had no work.

With regard to the issue of the self-employed drawing unemployment assistance, we face the challenge outlined by the Senator but, on the other hand, we face a different challenge, which is if the income of a tradesman drops to €100 a week and he or she is paid jobseeker's allowance and activity picks up again, the Department is faced with the practical difficulty when he or she is caught working and drawing of establishing when his or her income was not €100 a week. The Bill provides that the simplest measure to implement regarding the self-employed is to activate them into a scheme, like the farm assist solution under the rural social scheme. Good luck to them if they want to work in the evenings because they have given us the time, they were paid for it and they can work to their heart's content, subject to periodic means tests into the future. In that way, money is not being given for nothing and, therefore, the working and drawing issue does not arise.

The issue is worthy of debate. They are entitled to the jobseeker's allowance. The rural social scheme is a much better solution for the genuine under-employed farmer and for society and protecting the State's interest than an arrangement under which the person receives a payment and the State gets nothing in return. In addition, especially with the self-employed, it is difficult to control those who are working and drawing and undercutting honest, decent people who pay their tax and insurance. They are complaining all the time that they are being undercut by people in the black economy.