David Norris (Independent)

I reiterate my support for the position of Mr. Waters on the problems attaching to the status of the natural father, although he is almost as much of a monomaniac on that subject as I am on some others. He acknowledged that I had spoken out on this matter at a very early stage. I believe my credentials are established in that area.

With regard to the business of getting reports and statistics, I also put on the record the report of a formal commission initiated by the Swedish Government in 1999, and I regard that as authoritative. We may be getting ourselves into a situation such as that described in a short story of the late Seamus O'Kelly in which there was a court case involving two families regarding land. They had no knowledge of the intricacies of law but they acquired lawyers who produced maps and one said to the other "sure our maps are as long, as big and as complicated as yours and isn't our lawyer even bigger, fatter and more expensive". I am not sure about the benefit of comparing these things, especially in light of a case that is still before the courts. I believe it at the level of Supreme Court and therefore we must be reasonably careful. I recall clearly that a consultant psychiatrist gave evidence in that case and it was very strong evidence as I remember, but under cross-examination it was established that this particular highly reputable consultant had not written or published papers, lectured or had any detectable expertise in the area. Therefore one must be extremely careful. I say this without reference to anyone present. Following on from the person to whom I previously referred, there are an enormous number of crackpots in the United States on both sides. If we get into selecting and firing crackpots, it would be almost like the Bertie Ahern situation, which so endeared him to the nation, when he said we are not going to get anywhere if we sit here all night throwing red elephants and white herrings at each other.