John Paul Phelan (Fine Gael)

I will try not to be as provocative as the previous speaker. I am glad of the opportunity to have this discussion. A few things have been said which I wish to counter. I was particularly disappointed by the start of the Tánaiste's speech and her comment that we should be discussing the banking reports tonight. Surely to God whoever wrote her speech knew we had a debate on the banking reports in the Chamber yesterday. Surely they knew that if we were discussing confidence in the Government and the Taoiseach that the banking reports would be a huge part of that discussion.

I will not be lectured by Senator Boyle or others about the purpose of a confidence motion and how if the Government wins the debate, it wins. It has nothing to do with winning debates. This Government lost the debate a year ago. It is about winning the vote tonight. We know the Government has the numbers in this House and in the Lower House to win the vote. It has nothing to do with the debate and the standard of the debate.

I will certainly not be lectured to by Senator Boyle and other Government speakers about what the Opposition's role has been in our current economic circumstances. I was the finance spokesperson for five years in the Seanad when Deputy Cowen and former Deputy McCreevy were Minister for Finance. I remember making points, following the Budget Statements being delivered in the Dáil, about the overheating of the economy and our over-reliance on construction. l recall Deputy Brian Cowen sitting in the chair currently occupied by the Minister of State, Deputy Finneran, and Members on the Government benches laughing at me. How stupid could I be? The attitude of Deputy Ahern at the time was that people who thought the economy was being overheated should go away and do something with themselves. That was the attitude of Fianna Fáil and their friends in Government at the time.

I will not be lectured to and told that we did not give the warnings. I certainly will not listen to anybody inside or outside this House say that nobody predicted what was going to happen. Several people predicted it. This was presented to the Government at budget and other times but it chose deliberately to ignore the advice it was given. That is its prerogative.

There is also the contention by Deputy Cowen and others since the publication of the banking reports that they accept responsibility for what happened. However, there are consequences for accepting responsibility. If somebody commits an offence, is brought before the court and accepts responsibility, there are consequences for their actions. The consequences for this Government must be that it leaves or is drummed out of office. Thankfully, we do not live in a society that is riven with some of the social unrest we have witnessed in other countries in Europe. However, I sometimes think Irish people do not get angry enough about what has happened in this country and the revisionism of Senator Boyle, Senator Cassidy and others about what occurred.

I can tell them about my friends — I am 31 years of age — who have mortgages they cannot pay. People ring my office every day because they cannot meet their mortgage payment due to losing their jobs or their jobs being made part-time. They have to do that work because that is all they can get, but they cannot meet the repayments on their mortgages of €400,000 or €500,000. What about the people who have left the country? The biggest disgrace, for which Deputy Brian Cowen and Fianna Fáil are responsible, is that another generation of Irish people will have to leave this country. A total of 60,000 left in the last 12 months and 60,000 more will leave this year as a result of that party's actions in Government.

When we had our Celtic tiger economy Members on all sides of the House hoped we would not have to lose another generation of Irish people to the emigration ships again. A couple of months ago, I met a father who had just brought his son to the bus in Ballyhale. His son was going to New Zealand. He has just got a job there and does not know if he will ever come back. He might never return. The man was crying to me. How can one ignore the real tragedy for those families and individuals, who have suffered because of what the Government has done?

The Government has been named in the banking reports; Professor Honohan does not put a tooth in it, nor do Mr. Regling and Mr. Watson. They put a large chunk of the responsibility at the Government's door. It is not all the Government's responsibility, as I have pointed out each time I have spoken on this issue. However, it is clearly spelt out in the reports that the fiscal and macro-economic policies pursued by Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats, the Green Party and whoever else propped up Fianna Fáil in Government were responsible to a large extent for the difficulties in which we currently find ourselves.

I agree with most of Senator Ross's comments about appointments to State boards. I have never held the view that somebody with a political affiliation should not be on a State board. If they are good enough for the job, they should get it, regardless of their politics. However, they should be interviewed by the Oireachtas committee that is responsible for the State board. There should be some examination of whether they are good enough, rather than whether they go to enough cumann meetings. With regard to the notion put forward by Senator Ross that the Green Party does not do that, it has stuffed people on boards left, right and centre. An Bord Pleanála is one example but there are others.