Ivor Callely (Fianna Fail)

I lend my support to the comments of the previous speakers, Senator Alex White in particular. I challenge the Leader on a response he gave me last week in respect of my call for a debate on older people. He is my good friend, but I challenge him on the basis that he indicated we would have a debate on carers. That matter merits a debate on its own. In his response, the Leader did not give me a commitment that we would have a debate on older people. I gather from his response that the carers debate may be tied to a debate on health, but that is a very broad issue. I am asking the Leader for two commitments: a stand-alone debate on carers and a debate on older people.

The only proviso I have regarding Senator Fitzgerald's proposal is that the debate must be properly structured. I will not support an amendment to the Order of Business to call in the Minister wherever she might be. She might not even be in the precincts of the Houses. If we are serious about getting to the root of this issue, however, we must have a structured debate.

Senator Alex White alluded to and I have clearly expressed dissatisfaction with the HSE. We have established a Frankenstein's monster that is stalking our land and not delivering services. The HSE is charged with service provision while the Department of Health and Children remains as a policy Department. Many of us on all sides of the House have lost sight of that fact. Budget comparisons are invalid because it is not like for like. It is a complex area.

If we are serious, we must structure the debate properly. I would like to see many of the questions that have been asked in the media answered in a positive way as quickly as possible.