Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)

I am delighted this debate is taking place on the role of women in politics. I have not written a long speech. As spokesperson on justice issues, I could have led off on the last occasion, but I ceded ground to Senator McDonald who spoke very eloquently on the subject. It is important that women have their say in politics.

On the imposition of quotas, some of the points made by Senator O'Toole were interesting because while one can take a horse to water, one cannot make it drink it. I have one daughter and she has as much interest in politics as the man in the moon and believes I am crazy. She said that, when growing up, she hardly ever saw me and only saw me at funerals or meetings and that I was always away in Dublin or Cork County Hall. Her point was valid. She did not make it until she was about 16 years old, at which time it was probably too late for me take on the role expected of me.

In my area I have always encouraged women to get involved in politics. On Bandon Town Council there are four female councillors. Three of Fianna Fáil's four elected representatives are female, about which I am delighted. On Skibbereen Town Council Fianna Fáil has two of the nine elected representatives, one of whom is a young girl. On Bantry Town Council there has always been, at least in the past 20 years, one or two females from different parties. We have always encouraged the girls, or ladies, to become involved in politics. It is important that this be acknowledged.

There is a perception that politics is a man's world and that we are against the involvement of women in politics. That is far from the truth. In many cases I have found it almost impossible to get women to become secretaries or chairpersons of Fianna Fáil cummain. I have written to them and cajoled and begged them to do so. They probably find the lifestyle difficult. Politics is becoming a very tough career. If I had put the same number of hours and work into the legal profession as I have put into politics since joining Cork County Council in 1985, at which time I was a young solicitor, I would certainly be a far wealthier man today and I am not being facetious in any way in saying this. I would have a better lifestyle and have had a greater input into my family life when my children were growing up. It would be disingenuous of me to say otherwise.

Unfortunately, there is a public perception of politics to the effect that politicians are all crooks and gangsters. This applies across the board, although Fianna Fáil, being the party in power, may be hit hardest. It can be heard in the pub or at GAA matches. As with men, professional women who have spent five or six years in college and the possibility of pursuing a career with a guaranteed income or perhaps a guaranteed period in office think hard, twice and three times, about becoming involved in politics. I come from a family of 11 and have seven sisters - I was cowed down by seven girls. However, I do not believe any one of them would have got involved in politics. They all had a reasonably good education and some had to emigrate.

The perception that Parliament is an exclusively male club is wrong. Perhaps other parties have different experiences and, if so, I would like to hear about them. In 1981 I encouraged a lady to stand for election to the Dáil. She was the first lady in my party in my area to do so. She was placed on the ticket and I canvassed very hard for her, but she was unsuccessful. She emigrated subsequently and is now married in Paris or some other location in France. When I met her recently, she said that, in one sense, she was glad she had not been elected because she had made a life for herself in France.

If one considers the ancient political structures, including in England before democracy, one will note that women made their mark in politics right across the world. Women who participated in politics include Indira Ghandi and Margaret Thatcher in England, as well as various queens, including Queen Elizabeth, Queen Mary I, Queen Mary II and Queen Victoria. The United States came relatively close to having a female President elected on the last occasion which would have been an historic occasion. Perhaps it is believed in that country that it was not the right time for Ms Hillary Clinton to make it. Others will say that because she was so closely linked with Mr. Bill Clinton, it probably damaged her career. She now holds a senior political position in the United States.

I am delighted this debate is taking place. At our group meeting I asked the Leader not to stifle the debate but to allow it to roll over. This is the second day on which we have discussed women's participation in politics. When this very important debate concludes today at 1.30 p.m., 23 or 24 Senators, over one third of the Members of this House, will have participated in it. It is only right this debate should take place.

As many more speakers are offering, I will bring my remarks to a close. I have always encouraged the participation of women in politics. However, imposing quotas for the sake of doing so would not constitute an ideal system. I have been involved in politics since 1985 and I do not recall any occasion when Fianna Fáil's internal structures prevented or dissuaded female candidates from running or were used to oust such candidates at party conventions. Whenever a female member put her name forward for election to a town or county council or to Dáil Éireann, she was encouraged. This was due to the perception that a young female candidate can obtain the additional votes necessary to ensure she is elected before one of her male counterparts.

I am merely outlining my own little aguisín. My experience indicates that women are not disadvantaged when it comes to their involvement in politics. They have an extremely important role to play. I accept the system militates against them and that politics is a difficult job. Many women with good careers are not anxious to wade into the current quagmire in which politics finds itself. They perceive the difficulties involved and realise there is no guarantee that once they have won a seat, they will be re-elected. The constituency rivalries that exist among members of the same party give rise to difficulties for any candidate, male or female.