Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)

I second the amendment to the Order of Business proposed by Senator Norris. Senator Ross has yet again raised an important point and exposed the fault line in our democracy. CIE has deliberately frustrated the will of the members of a committee, the people who represent ordinary citizens. It is a disgrace and an abomination that CIE can tell a committee of the Houses that its representatives will not attend a committee meeting or co-operate with it. Does the Leader of the House agree with this? It is time we moved away from our current model. I agree with Senator Mooney that committees must be given the power to compel witnesses to attend, as happens in the American model, in order that they can be brought in and held to account. The example of CIE shows that the frustration felt is due to the political patronage Fianna Fáil has perpetuated in the past 13 years, with its appointment of pals and cronies and giving the people the two fingers. It is about time this was changed.

I agree with Senator O'Reilly that a debate is required on the issue of school patronage. As an educator and having spent five years in a seminary, it is important that we have a collective and holistic examination of education. However, one should not blame the Catholic Church for all the wrongs done by a minority. There are decent, ordinary teachers who are struggling. Patronage of our schools is a very important issue which we must examine. Let us bring about reform and meaningful change, but let us include everybody in that regard. Are we seriously suggesting Catholicism permeates mathematics or geography? We must also examine the funding of Protestant schools.

I join Senators Norris and Hannigan in asking that the ambassador to Malawi make very strong representations to the Malawian Government regarding the appalling case mentioned. It is a blight on that country that it would allow two people to be jailed for being in a relationship which would be considered acceptable in this society. It is wrong and we must send the message to the Minister and our ambassador that we cannot condone it.