Joe O'Toole (Independent)

I congratulate Senator Quinn for developing this legislation. I welcome the Minister of State. This issue was touched on many years ago.

I refer to the system of buying and selling property in France. The matter is dealt with by a notary public who is, effectively, a lawyer for the common interest. The parties may also engage their own solicitors if required.

The job of the notary public, for example, is if Feargal Quinn is selling a property to Joe O'Toole, he has to ensure there are no encumbrances on the property, that all planning permissions or otherwise are correct, and that it is legally in a state in which it can be sold. He must also ensure there are no encumbrances or liens on the seller. He must ensure there is no form or relationship that might have a gain on the property, that nobody has any impact upon it. Having dealt with all these matters, he must consider the buyer, in this example, Joe O'Toole. The buyer must show that he has the money and he must lodge the money with the notary before the sale can go through. This is very similar to the provisions in Senator Quinn's Bill.

I spoke to a plumbing subcontractor recently. About 18 months ago, he finished doing the plumbing work and installation of all the plumbing and heating in ten houses off the South Circular Road. He did an honest and diligent job. However, just as he had completed the work, the money stopped. He does not know who went bust, whether it was the developer or one of the building contractors. All his materials are in the houses which are unsold and which have not been connected to gas or electricity supplies. He wonders if he will be able to access his materials. This story could be replicated across the country 24,000 times.

The system as it stands means that somebody can purchase a piece of land and having put together the money to purchase the land, can be granted planning permission to build X number of units. The individual can then seek tenders from builders and subcontractors to build the houses. With no money whatever, he can hope that the sale of those houses will allow him to pay off the builders and subcontractors, make a profit and pay for the site. If something goes wrong along the way, if the business plan does not stand up, if the houses do not sell, then he does not have the money. He loses nothing - he will still have the site - but all the contractors lose out and they are all small enterprises.

Senator Quinn has made the need for the Bill very clear. It requires some form of commitment. We need to ensure that if somebody invests time, energy, money and labour, they will get fair pay and reward for their efforts. It is a provision to protect all sides. Senator Quinn has explained the legislation in detail. He has asked me to deal with section 9 which deals with adjudication. Adjudication should be efficient, simple to understand and time bound. These are the three crucial issues for any kind of effective adjudication, arbitration or mediation. It must be able to be simply initiated and be concluded within a certain period of time. Both parties can agree either to be bound by the outcome or to leave that until the end to agree or disagree.

Irish people like to have their day in court. Those of us who have been through the system know that a day in court can be the worst day of one's life. People believe that a day in court will somehow solve all their problems but the rest of us know that what one gets in court is the law rather than justice, in many cases, and sometimes they both coincide, if one is very lucky. People are losing all the time. What is needed is a bond or a financial instrument to ensure certainty so people will be paid when they are employed. This works both ways. For instance, a buyer puts a deposit or staged payments on a property but the property is not transferred to him or her and the builder or developer goes bust and people are left with nothing. This is about honesty and putting in place an instrument on which all parties have a lien and can make it happen.

I understand the Government will table an amendment which will not lead to a division tonight. Instead, it will recognise the developments in the area and that within five months the Bill will be read a second time. The Independent Senators ask that this be entered into in an open and generous way by the Government, admitting there is a problem which must be sorted out in everyone's interests. Senator Feargal Quinn has made a commitment to get himself involved and I will help in any way I can.

However, we need to get a clear direction from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government on what is needed to move on this legislation. I accept the criticism made that the Bill needs more provisions. Identifying the areas that need to be improved would help make the legislation more effective. The UK model has worked well in adjudication and I accept this Bill needs to be more comprehensive in its approach. I accept the Government recognises this as a problem and that it may need several months to go the whole nine yards, so to speak, on the legislation's provisions.

It would be a disaster, however, if nothing were to happen with this legislation. Many people in various areas affected by this legislation have shown much interest in it. We need to harness their energy and experience to get this to work. It would be positive if the Government were to expand the legislation, comparing it to the UK's and other jurisdictions' models. Will the Government indicate tonight that it will follow such a course of action and involve itself in rolling consultation with all parties which can make an input? If this Bill, as drafted, has to be amended before a second reading, I am sure Senator Feargal Quinn will not be adverse to having it changed so long as it deals with the objectives he set out.

I compliment Senator Feargal Quinn on putting this legislation together and it has been my privilege to second it. I welcome the Government coming around to supporting this legislation and look forward to its response to it.