Fiona O'Malley (Independent)

I welcome the Minister of State and the opportunity to discuss this issue. Senator Feeney alluded to the work that had been done in this area, particularly since the Minister of State was given this job and his office was established, in increasing the awareness of child care and in terms of the way in which the issue has been pushed up the agenda, rightly so. Part of what the report highlights is that if something is not measured, one cannot know what progress one is making or what is the extent of the problem. What is highlighted in the report, as previous speakers mentioned, is the need to undertake a comprehensive audit throughout the country to ensure we know what is the extent of the problem.

As previous speakers also said, our concern must be the welfare of children. I have always been of the opinion that a poor person can only afford the best and that a poor person who is required to be in the care of the State can only afford and deserves the best. I am sure it is a desire of the Minister of State, as I am sure it is of every member of the Government, to provide a service that is second to none, particularly for vulnerable children, but as we know, that is not necessarily the case. Nobody can be proud of the services we provide while children are subject to mishandling and fall through the cracks. It is our role and that of the Minister of State to provide a policy framework to ensure the cracks are filled in. That is what we must do.

A point I picked up from the Ombudsman for Children's report concerns whether child protection services are best delivered within the framework of the HSE. A brother-in-law of mine is involved in the legal profession and from time to time tells me about different cases before the courts. Frequently - Senator Norris alluded to this - young girls around the age of 12 years in the care of the State are forced into prostitution. It is heartbreaking to think that will be the fate of a young girl in the care of the State. However, she might be coerced into it, which is appalling.

The difficulty is that two State systems - the justice and health care systems - are involved. The Minister of State's dilemma - ours also - is that we must create a service, but we cannot have one element almost hoping a child will commit a crime because he or she will no longer then be its responsibility. That is the biggest challenging facing the Minister of State because we cannot have people in place who are not interested in the welfare of children, regardless of the reasons they are before the courts. It may involve something as serious as prostitution - I mean serious for the victim, the young girl who has been forced into that way of life - or a young person charged before the courts with committing petty crimes because he or she is on the streets and stealing to feed himself or herself. We must have an all-inclusive, comprehensive system that will not treat them as criminals. We do not want a system under which the people who are supposed to care for them wi be hoping they will become a statistic or a problem for the other element of the service.

We must examine how we can support those working in this area. Senator Norris made reference to the industrial relations problem. I realise it is a challenge for the Minister of State when staff are reluctant to do that extra bit because it is not necessarily included in their terms and conditions. If there is one group for which I have sympathy, it is social workers because the buck stops with them. If things go wrong, the question always asked is what were the social workers doing. Time and again, when we hear about tragic cases, not only here in Ireland but also in the United Kingdom, the way in which social workers are vilified is disgraceful. I once watched a documentary on the life of a social worker and they were reluctant to do that extra bit or become too involved because it might create a liability for them. Therefore, they have a problem. They must be very careful of their legal position on such issues because if they overstep their role, this may create trouble for them. However, they are the very people about whom others ask why they did not foresee something. We are aware of the burden and caseload so many social workers have. As mentioned already, as with the health services, the service provided by social workers, which deals with people who are vulnerable, at risk or who come from chaotic lifestyles, cannot only operate on a nine to five basis. It is a 24-hour service, is highly expensive to run and trying to man it is a problem. We need to provide real support to social workers because the burden falls heavily on them. I am glad, therefore, the Minister is making good progress in recruiting for the 270 vacant posts. The sooner this process is complete the better. I do not need to tell the Minister of State how difficult the situation is because the number of social workers per citizen is low.

We all know what is wrong, but the Minister of State has work well under way to improve the services. I wish him well in doing that. He has an extremely important job and has made great progress, which is acknowledged in the Ombudsman's report. Any child in need of the care of the State deserves only the best and I look forward to us being extremely proud of the services we provide for children in the care of the State.