Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)

Let me finish. You come back and you listen to John Creedon, Lilian Smith and "Late Date". Go back to the days when Liam Nolan presented "Late Date" - fabulous radio. It was not going to make money. As Senator Leyden threw in Donncha Ó Dúlaing, there is "Fáilte Isteach". It is not riveting radio but it is compelling listening as well.

People such as Denis O'Brien of Newstalk - if I can name persons outside the House, although I do not mean to - are driven by money. In some cases the local radio stations are now repeating programmes such as Newstalk's "Late Night" because they will not pay people to come in, and that is wrong. It is great that RTE has gone back to having "The Late Debate" on weeknights and "Late Date" at the end of the night.

In Cork University Hospital, for example, for 21 years there have been volunteers sitting inside in the studio presenting programmes predominately for people in the hospital, but also for those at home, who have no other company but Cork University Hospital Radio. For 21 years, there have been people volunteering to make programmes on classical music, sport, Irish music etc. I will not name them because I might offend people. I volunteered for hospital radio.

To me, that is what radio is about. It is not about the razzmatazz of RTE or of Newstalk, driven by figures and by getting in advertising revenue which, as I stated, pays the bills. When I hear the Fox News commentary, "balanced and fair", I think the biggest mistake every made - this is probably politically incorrect - was where the broadcasting commission or whoever decided that for referenda one must give X amount of time to everybody. Personally, I do not mind who goes on the radio or television. Take the political parties, Fianna Fáil, Labour, Green, whichever, and let us have a debate about it. What concerns me is that we become straightjacketed.

The one thing I wish the Minister would do is abolish half of these pundits who come on. Former Deputy Brendan McGahon had a great comment about people, that everybody had opinions on something else. Everybody in this country has an opinion, but there are people coming on radio and television as pundits and they are experts on everything. To me, radio and television is about being fair and accurate, about presenting a story that is true and allowing people to come into the lives of people, be it on "The Late, Late Show" or wherever.

There is major difficulty with commercialism in the local radio sector. For example, in Cork, to go back to where I started, the biggest mistake made by RTE was to close RTE Radio Cork.

There was a great programme on RTE a couple of weeks ago about Miah and Cha. We have lost the area of satire in RTE. "Hall's Pictorial Weekly" - I grew up in the 1970s - maligned Liam Cosgrave and his Government, fair enough. What is happening today? To where did Packie O'Callaghan, Frank Twomey and Alan Shortt go? They all are gone. There is no satire on television or radio anymore, expect for "Nob Nation" and "Gift Grub". "Scrap Saturday" was a great programme, although it did not make money. "Bull Island" did not make money, but it gave another outlet for expression which has been lost.

Senator Leyden is perplexed by the likes of George Lee. I welcome people to come in from RTE and run for politics. Senator Harris is a political pundit and a journalist, and he makes a contribution here. There are others who have come into this House from RTE and from other places and competed for election.