Martin Brady (Fianna Fail)

I recognise the good work done by David Begg. As a former trade union president, I worked with Mr. Begg for a number of years and always found him to be an able and honest person. He played a very important role in this regard and gave up much of his time. Trade union leaders have a very tough job at present. There is no point dwelling on the past as one must dwell on what is in front of one. While I can understand references made by another colleague to the CPSU, one must understand the members represented by the CPSU are from among the lowest paid pay grades in the public service. I can understand their perspective and do not wish to fuel any further anger. They perceive themselves as having been treated unfairly because some higher grades of public servants received an increase.

I will provide an example that was quoted to me yesterday by one of the aforementioned members. It concerns the chairman of NAMA who left a position for which he received a substantial pension and then got a substantial salary in NAMA. He received an further increase shortly thereafter. Similarly, some higher public servants received huge increases while lower public servants experienced a cut of 10%. Members should note that a cut of 10% to someone who earns €30,000 per year is quite different from a 10% cut to someone who earns €200,000 per year. This is the difficulty faced by such trade union leaders.

Public servants provide an important role within the system and provide a service for the private sector. Were they to become completely demoralised, it would pose a significant problem for everyone in the country. For example, in Revenue they deal with people who are starting up businesses or who are in business and play an important role. This must be recognised and I do not agree with the mentality whereby one tells people they are lucky to have a job. It does no good to anyone.

It is said there is no problem with reform in the public service either, but people do not like change. When I was in the union, I remember we once had a huge row over computerisation which we would not accept under any circumstances. I understand this, as must Members. They also must understand that the Croke Park deal is not perfect. When as a union leader one sits around the table with one's employers, the official side or whatever one might want to call them, one must be able to see where they are coming from. One must assess what is achievable because there is no point in going down a road that one knows will lead to a cul-de-sac because that is no use to one's members or to anyone else. As for Senator Mooney's comment that he could not understand the reason the CPSU members voted the way they did, when one puts out a ballot to one's members, one has no control over how they will vote and one must deal with the hand one is dealt. While I do not know how the CPSU will handle this result, I am sure they will resolve the matter. Too much emphasis is placed on blaming one another or unions or whatever. Everyone must work together in this regard.

In respect of reform within the public service, I have made the point several times to business people and so on that, at present, one is unable to talk to anyone within the public service. It is quite difficult for a business person or anyone else to speak to a person on the other end of the telephone to discuss starting up a business, motor tax issues, driving licences or any other issue. One gets two or three answering machines and recorders. The reason for this is that management introduced this. Management is not playing its role within the public service or within the local authorities, however, because managers are not managing. Although they are being paid huge salaries, they are taking little responsibility. They state that this is a union directive. I contacted a local authority recently and was told by a girl that she was not working to rule and would talk to me but that others were working to rule. Working to rule means one does what one is supposed to do every day. Not working to rule means that if someone asks one to remain working until midnight, one refuses to do it.

Overall, Members must be on the same wavelength, must understand where people are coming from and must understand the reason for their anger. They are angry because people on €30,000 per year have seen others who earn €200,000 per year receiving an increase at the same time their pay is being cut. This is understandable to anyone. A lot of work was put into the Croke Park deal, however, and I sincerely hope it works and I believe it will. People should get away from the practice of telling people they are lucky to have a secure job or to have this or that. This is not the message that should be sent out. Members should interact with such people, communicate with them in a real way and acknowledge that they are doing a good job to the best of their ability. In respect of the Passport Office, I can understand how a union leader cannot control a situation because tensions rise, people get emotional and so on. Consequently, Members should forget about that and should deal with what we have from henceforth.