Joe O'Toole (Independent)

While I strongly support the approach taken by Senator Fitzgerald, we need to engage with the facts. To do so, the Minister for Finance should first have a conversation with the Seanad about exactly where we stand, the budgetary outlook, his requirements, revenue predictions, growth and the budgetary preconditions to be met before we enter the Estimates process. Rather than beginning with a row on the issues which Senator Fitzgerald correctly raised, let us get our hands dirty by engaging with the facts and identifying what must be done and what is our view of it can be achieved. We should not begin the process with an argument as we can argue later about who caused the current problems. Before the Estimates process and pre-budget presentations, discussions and arguments commence, we should offer our views on what needs to be done and how it can be achieved.

There is also good news, such as, for example, the decline in bond coupons for Government debt, an increase in retail sales figures and recent growth predictions. We must acknowledge where we are, what needs to be achieved and how it could be achieved. Rather than doing this through the front pages of the newspapers, it should be done through real engagement in the House. The Seanad could add something to this debate.

Time and again, Senator Bradford has raised the need for the House to engage with the views of people outside the political process - the social partners for want of a better description. The argument that social partnership removes the authority or input of Parliament is based on a premise that is nothing more than a bottle of smoke. The belief that were it not for social partnership, the Government would suddenly start to engage with Parliament is false. That has never been the case with regard to the relevant issues and will probably never be the case. We should begin a process of engagement.