Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)

I welcome the opportunity to say a few words on this motion. I also welcome the Minister of State to the House.

This motion is unworkable. We are blowing something up unnecessarily high. The code of practice consists of a number of comprehensive sections on boards of directors, remuneration, senior management, directors' fees, risk management, accountability, internal control, internal audit and so forth. Is there this much of a conflict of interest for public servants who move into the private sector? To phrase it bluntly, we are putting the cart before the horse.

I remember when declarations of interest were first introduced in respect of Members of both Houses. It was initially proposed that Members would declare all of their interests, a list of which would be held in the Houses or elsewhere, and that a committee would be established in the Dáil and another in the Seanad to determine whether a Member had a conflict. As events turned out, everyone's declaration was made public. I will not say whether this was a good or bad idea.

Nowadays county manager contracts only last seven years. Someone could finish his or her term as a county manager, move into the private sector and still be in his or her 40s. A job might come up. Is the Government honestly saying that job should be put on hold for 12 months before the manager could take it? If a job is advertised and a county manager, planning official or someone in procurement - the areas in which I presume most conflict exists - applies for it on the spur of the moment because he or she wants to leave the public service, is he or she going to ask the other employer to hold the job for 12 months?

As Senator Alex White asked, who decides there is a conflict? The manager or whoever would need to apply to see whether there was a conflict. I presume there would be none in most cases. I recommend a board to investigate potential conflicts of interest subsequently. If it finds a conflict, a portion of the person's lump sum payment or pension should be withheld.

It is in this way that punishment should be meted out. A punishment should be imposed but this should take place after the fact. I cannot understand why we should try to oblige someone who wishes to leave the public service and take up a position in the private sector to wait 12 months to do so. That is how I interpret the motion but perhaps I am wrong.

Senator Ó Brolcháin referred to councillors. I do not believe that councillors are claiming expenses in respect of conferences they do not attend. The majority of councillors attend conferences to obtain information for their personal gain and for that of the counties and local authorities they represent. At such conferences they obtain a valuable insight into how things operate in local authorities in other countries, etc.