Paul Bradford (Fine Gael)

Yes, as has Deputy Hogan. This is a simplistic reaction because if one was to exclude the top four, five, six, eight or ten people, it would still not solve the problem. However, I do not have the answer as to how we should divide the spoils. Many are very happy with the current system because they are the beneficiaries. However, a huge number of people do not benefit as strongly as they believe they should and they tell me and my colleagues that they want to see a change. One group which has emerged very strongly in the past six to 12 months in presenting such a demand is that of smaller dairy farmers. As a result of falling milk prices, they have seen their incomes disappear and, unfortunately, many of them have decided to leave the agriculture sector. They tell me there should be a floor or minimum level of EU support to keep a farmer with 20, 30 or 40 cows engaged in farming. It is one of the many competing demands and questions which the Minister will have to attempt to answer.

Ireland entered the European Economic Community in 1973 and the first huge agricultural policy change - the quota system - was introduced in 1983. It caused controversy and difficulties for persons on the wrong side of the line but people adjusted in so far as they were able to do so. Now that regime is about to come to an end and the circle of EU policy keeps turning. I appeal to the Minister that, in whatever deal is reached, we try to be very proactive in reducing the level of bureaucracy and red tape. I know this is a cliché but bureaucracy and red tape cost the Department and Irish farmers a huge percentage of grant aid. We should be able to reduce significantly the amount lost owing to bureaucracy and red tape.

I ask the Minister to be cautious in the debate on modulation. The concept of rural development and behind programmes such as the LEADER programme is a positive one. However, robbing Peter to pay Paul is not what we should be about. We must try to secure sufficient funding across the programmes in place for rural development, but it should not come from Pillar 1 funding sources.

We have to be conscious of the fact that the environment is very much at the top of the agenda for many and that the carbon issue is of great concern. European and Irish agriculture, under forestry and other programmes, play a very significant role in dealing with the carbon crisis and can continue to do so. I hope this issue and the broader issue of the funding of the REPS can be worked into the provision of more mainline supports for agriculture when the final package is put together.

The Minister will appreciate that we could all speak for some time on the issues involved. We do not yet know the answers, but it is important that we start to pose the questions to ourselves and each other, as perhaps we might find a jig-saw of ideas and solutions which the Minister could present in Brussels. I appreciate the challenge posed. I know that at Commission level there is a view that change is required. We must live in the real world. There is no point in the Minister, me or anyone else telling farmers that there will not be a change when deep down in our heart of hearts we know there will be. We must manage that change and secure the maximum funding which we must try to allocate as fairly as possible. We must provide for active farmers and farm families to enable them to continue farming. We must also aspire to ensuring an opening for new entrants. Every industry needs to sustain itself with new blood. As such, we cannot shut the door on new entrants, whether it be in the dairy, beef or tillage sectors.

I am sure we will debate this matter further. It is the type of issue on which we need to reflect every few months as messages are received from Brussels and when there are views and indications of where the various partners stand and we need to respond. The Committee on Agriculture and Rural Development in the European Parliament has presented its first report, as has the socialist group in the Parliament. I presume the other groupings will do likewise. This is a crucial debate for Ireland and it is vital that we secure the best possible deal. I genuinely wish the Minister well. It is possibly the most important set of EU negotiations for Ireland since 1972 or 1973. It is crucial that we achieve the best result in the talks.