Feargal Quinn (Independent)

The Minister of State is welcome. I also welcome the fact that we are having this worthwhile debate. It is interesting because about 25 years ago I made a comment, long before I was ever involved with this House, about ministerial pensions. I said I had been amazed to discover that former Ministers still with the same employer, namely, the State, were drawing ministerial pensions. The story was carried in the Evening Herald , even though I was not a political figure at the time.

We face a dilemma on this issue. I do not know how it will be solved, but I am sure it will be through legislation, as long as there are no voluntary withdrawals. The public cannot understand how someone working for the same employer can draw a pension and also earn a salary. We must face up to this challenge.

I recall a particular individual who was a Minister some years ago. He lost his seat and did not manage to survive in politics. Does this mean he cannot work for anyone without having to forgo his ministerial pension? It is a tricky position to be in. The matter is not as simple as I thought it would be. It is apparent, however, that the State cannot afford such extravagances as ministerial pensions which will have to come to an end because the public does not understand the reason for paying them.

On how we will solve the problem, we face a challenge to the economy. According to the most recent forecast, the Exchequer will collect some €32 billion this year, but it costs the State approximately €55 billion to function, not to mention the cost of the banks' bailout. Put starkly, we must borrow the difference between these two figures this year. Whether it is through the Croke Park agreement or something else, we are asking citizens to tighten their belts and reduce spending. We are telling them that it would be worthwhile doing so because there is much at stake, but then they see former Ministers taking a pension while earning an income. It is not possible to survive on that basis. We will have to make a statement on the issue. On that basis I support the motion brought forward by the Opposition.