Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)

I support the Bill and welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Mary White. I believe this is my first time to speak before her in this Chamber. I wish her luck in her new brief, in which I am sure she will be a breath of fresh air. I refer to an ongoing debate in this Chamber in which I have yet to speak, namely, the role of women in politics and so on. In that regard, it is a major plus for feminists and women, in particular, to see a new face among the ranks of Ministers of State.

While the gestation period of the Bill has been prolonged, its framework and the concept for it within legislation has been in place for at least 30 years. I note that in the historical perspective offered to the House by the Minister of State, Deputy Finneran, he went back to the first piece of legislation dating from 1983 and outlined how things had changed in the short time since. At the time there was no Skype, there were no mobile phones and the Internet had not been developed. There has been a technological revolution in respect of e-commerce and e-mailing, as well as Twitter and tweets, etc. Therefore, even if this legislation had been introduced ten years ago, because of the pace of technological advances within the last decade, in particular, it probably would have required updating and change. Consequently, I do not perceive the delay in the introduction of the Bill as a ground for major criticism of the Government.

I broadly welcome the Bill. In particular, one should note that in some of the high profile crimes solved in recent years such as those involving Wayne O'Donoghue and Joe O'Reilly evidence intercepted by the Garda Síochána was critical in the conviction and incarceration of those guilty of serious crimes. There is no doubt but that in the war the Government and the State, irrespective of who is in power, wage against organised crime, this legislation will have a major role to play. However, in introducing such important legislation, one should caution, as my colleague, Senator Regan, has also noted, that one cannot underestimate the great significance of the test case brought in Germany. I refer to a fairly recent landmark decision in which the German constitutional court actually rejected the European Union directive.

The Minister of State should respond on the European Union-wide implications of this decision by a court in Germany. Germany is both a major player in the support of the euro and one of the strongest and most powerful countries within the European Union. However, while this decision probably does not completely overthrow the entire purpose of the European Union directive and this legislation, nevertheless it places a huge question mark against the future direction of the directive. It has caused consternation from a legal perspective in respect of the equivalent legislation in Germany. I seek to establish what the repercussions are and what ripple effect this will have on other European Union countries.

I consider the Constitution to be the most fluid and active written constitution within the European Union. Not many other countries have such a written constitution. If one considers the Australian and American systems, one finds the 1937 Constitution has been the second most amended constitution in constitutional history. The number of amendments introduced in our relatively short history is phenomenal. Therefore, from a constitutional perspective, the Minister of State should reflect on the implications, if any, of such a challenge here. There is a doubt at the back of my mind that should such a constitutional challenge to take place, it might give rise to the prospect, however worrying it may be for the Government, that it might create a roadblock to the legislation under discussion. Perhaps I am acting as devil's advocate in this regard, but one should not walk away from or dismiss lightly this matter.

On the subject of crime and criminal law, the appropriate use of this legislation in the fight against organised crime will be welcome. It is needed by the country, the Garda and the Defence Forces. It is welcome that, as far as I can discern in reading through the Bill, an attempt to intercept or gather information and keep it for the period set out therein must be sanctioned by a chief superintendent of the Garda or a colonel in the Army.

I also note the legislation will extend the powers of the Revenue Commissioners. I have some reservations about this because the Revenue Commissioners already have draconian powers. While I make this point in a balanced and non-derogatory fashion, as a young solicitor dealing with the powers of Customs and Excise back in the early 1980s, I can recall an instance in which a European lady's car was confiscated while she was shopping in Bantry. When she emerged, she was unable to find her car and it took her a day or two to establish where it had been taken and who had taken it. In other words, through the use of such draconian powers, a sledgehammer is being used to crack a nut. The Revenue Commissioners, the Customs Service and so on have great draconian powers as matters stand and I have an uneasy feeling that such powers are being extended willy-nilly to Revenue in many areas.

Of course, I condemn organised efforts and scams to deprive Revenue of funding, whether it be VAT fraud or cross-Border dealings involving the illicit importation of diesel or cigarettes. While I understand it has a job to do, such powers should be controlled and investigated. Moreover, if mistakes are made, such powers might be curtailed, if that is the correct term to use, at ministerial level.

It is important we recognise what is happening in other European countries in this respect. My colleague referred to the Bills Digest through which I browsed to check legislative changes made and the background to what was happening in other EU member states. There are comparative data retention schemes in France. Following transposition of the data directive, France retains data on telephony and Internet usage for one year. Under our proposal, such data would be retained for three years. In Germany matters are in disarray because of a court decision. In Belgium the justice Ministry proposes to introduce a two year data retention period. Given that the directive is being transposed into law in member states, why does a standard two or three-year retention period not apply across Europe? Why will the period that will apply here be different from that which will apply in Belgium or another member state?

I wish to deal with a matter, to which the Minister of State did not refer. We have had the amazing experience of what has happened in the banking sector during the past three years, whether one would describe it as white collar fraud or gross negligence. The provisions of this legislation probably cannot be applied retrospectively, but could they be applied to oversee the way in which banks do business? They have brought the country to its knees in the past two or three years by making serious mistakes which bordered on being criminal. They over-lent funds to young people who were anxious to enter the property market. A game of Russian roulette was being played in the market, in which the sky was the limit with regard to the prices paid for plots of land which were totally over-valued. Taxpayers now have to foot the bill. I ask the Minister of State to consider whether this legislation could be used to monitor the way banks do business. Perhaps I am losing the run of myself in making this suggestion.

If information was available on the activities of criminals, it would be far more valuable than giving extra powers to the Revenue Commissioners. However, I broadly welcome the legislation. It would be good if it was of assistance in putting organised criminals behind bars. I have mentioned two recent cases, particularly that of Joe O'Reilly, where data used by the Garda enabled it to put behind bars two people who would otherwise probably have walked free. That was a very good achievement on its part. I hope the Minister of State or whoever will deal with the Bill on Committee Stage will reflect on the few points I have made.