Joe O'Toole (Independent)

Until it is the law of the land, people will be abused and controlled, held under foot and oppressed in this way. People will be told that these are cultural values. We took many bad practices abroad with us, as did those in Chinatown and other groups to countries to which they emigrated. Immigrants in Ireland need the authority from us to say stop and to say they will not agree with a practice that breaks the law. As residents of this country they have a duty to disclose where this practice is happening. This can only be put in place when the we pass the appropriate legislation. Attitudinal change will follow legislative change. Would that it were otherwise but it has never been the case.

It is of great importance to articulate our views, as is happening tonight. It is important to hear a convergence of views on the issue. I was in the Seanad when we held the first debates in these Houses on AIDS. It brought a certain focus to the subject and people were not afraid to talk about what was a taboo subject for many people. This issue is the same. I was uncomfortable reading the legislation, never mind visualising what happens to young women and girls in cultures that carry out this practice.

It is also important to tell leaders of cultural groups advocating female genital mutilation that this is wrong and was never right even if it was a practice. It will never be right even if it is within the group's cultural practice. Just because it is something we have done for years does not mean it is correct. The difficulty is that we tend to educate people into thinking that if this is what we always did it must be okay. That is not the case because time moves on. There was a time when hanging was wrong but it was legal. These are the nuances we must examine in giving leadership.

It is a pity the Government could not do the big thing and examine perfectly formed legislation and send out the message that we care about immigrants. Any ordinary Irish person who sits down and listens to what we are talking about will share our views and be equally appalled. It is not that this House is ahead of the population; it is our duty to show direction and leadership on the issues such as this to our immigrant groups. We should say that we welcome them and want them to be part of us but we need them to recognise why we are doing this. We want them to buy into it. This is the law of the land and I fully support the proposal.