David Norris (Independent)

I wish to reinforce what Senator Fitzgerald has said. I wish to comment, as I did previously, about these kind of rulings. There may be a situation in which an extra charge is imposed on the Exchequer. I have raised a situation where I do not think it is appropriate for the Seanad to be precluded in this area. If we examine the situation confronting us, however, the only way in which a charge could be created on the Exchequer is whereby that in itself reveals that it is not automatic. That is the only way in which a charge could be created, so we know from the ruling out of the amendment that it is not automatic. That is the first thing to be established by the procedures of this House. Second, I have been advised by our distinguished guests from Barnardos in the Public Gallery that, according to the best figures they can get, not more than 50% of cases have a situation where the guardian ad litem is appointed. Thus, there is a big gap. Again, this may be because the figures are not easily available or analysed, but perhaps it is more than that. Certainly, there is no doubt that it is not obligatory; nor is it in place as the result of a directive from the Minister. It is important that we extend it, if possible, in order that it would become automatic. I mention this because I have just been told - I was pleased to hear it - that in a recent unreported case Judge Gibbons commented on the guardian ad litem system and stated he was very pleased such a service was available in the State. He said that if the Seanad had done nothing else except establish this system, which it did about 20 years ago on the basis of an amendment from me and former Senator Brendan Ryan, it would justify its retention. Those are strong words from a judge and I regret his comments were not reported.