Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)

I understand what Senator O'Malley means. We all accept that the family can be a very dangerous place for a child. There is no doubt about that. Equally, information we have received on foot of recent scandals has highlighted that care situations can be dangerous as well. That is the reality. Sometimes the resources are not there. We have seen injustices. In effect, children in care who may be in quite high-risk situations might not have a social worker assigned to them and may be quite isolated. I remain concerned about the possible absolute exclusion of anybody other than HSE staff when decisions are being made under this section. It seems reasonable to consult "a person acting in loco parentis", if such a person is available. I am concerned that this section provides that it might not be "in the best interests of the child to consult with all or any of the following persons". It is a little dangerous and it could be over-used. If a family welfare conference is not held, I accept that one has to go to the High Court to explain why it was not held. I think the Minister of State said one has to do the same thing if one excludes all of these people.