Pearse Doherty (Sinn Fein)

I agree that there is a level of oversight in the NAMA legislation and that there is Oireachtas oversight. We do not deny that because a report will be laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas. As the Minister correctly stated, these recommendations seek to increase the level of oversight. The Minister also stated that the Minister for Finance is open to the idea of establishing a sub-committee. However, the reality is we are a number of weeks away from receiving the first report of NAMA, which could include the transfer of billions of euro in debt into a State agency, yet no sub-committee has been established to address that issue. What we will see is a set piece in the Dáil and Seanad rather than a real and proper debate to thrash out the details of what is contained in the report. The best way to deal with this matter - I presume this is the reason the Minister is open to the idea - is by way of sub-committee to which the reports could be sent to be digested in a full and proper manner and on which the sub-committee could make recommendations.

These recommendations seek to expedite what the Minister tells us is the possible intention of the Minister for Finance, namely, the establishment of a sub-committee. We need that sub-committee now not in the autumn when the first report will be old news. On remuneration of NAMA board members, I have a copy of the parliamentary question referred to by the Minister. The Minister appeared to be suggesting that parliamentary questions provide Members with another avenue in terms of finding out what is happening in NAMA. The reality is that we do not have that option. A Deputy should not have to think if there is any likelihood that, during a time when the Government has cut wages across the public sector, slashed dole payments and all the rest, the Minister decided to increase the fees of the board of NAMA, including increasing the chairman's fee by €70,000 for doing exactly the same job - his terms and conditions did not change. It is nearly a fantasy conversation that a Deputy would need to have with himself or herself and in the likelihood that fantasy becomes reality table a parliamentary question, only to be shocked to find on 10 March that the Minister gave approval in the previous month after discussions with the National Treasury Management Agency to increase the remuneration by €70,000.

That is not fair. This is our money and people should be fully aware if members of the board of NAMA are to get increases. Their terms of employment did not change one iota. The Minister indicated he recognises that they have an additional workload. I do not understand why he did not recognise that when the fees were set only a few weeks before that at €100,000 and then had to be increased to €170,000. We all knew of the workload the board of NAMA would have. We have seen the reports and know the debts that exist and the assets that need to be transferred. We know the difficult job the board has. Others may argue that it may be right to give the chairman of NAMA a 70% increase; we can have that argument at a later date - I do not believe it was right. However, what is completely and utterly wrong is that the Minister for Finance has the power to increase without discussion with Members of the Houses of the Oireachtas the remuneration to NAMA board members as he has done.

If we are serious about accountability and transparency, what does the Government fear from accepting this recommendation which compels the Minister for Finance, if he were to increase or decrease the remuneration of the NAMA board members at any future date, to seek the approval of these Houses? Refusal to accept the recommendation leads me to believe that the type of action the Minister for Finance took last month, which was against the spirit of everything he said in the run up to the budget, will happen again. It indicates the Government is afraid of accountability to the Dáil and Seanad in the damn knowledge that if the Minister for Finance came before either House and said: "Listen boys and girls, the chairperson has been in the job for the past couple of weeks and I'm going to give him a €70,000 increase. Don't worry that we cut everybody's wages in the budget. He needs another €70,000 because he is the chair of NAMA and the person who is working a three-day week chairing the finance committee is getting a €50,000 increase. By the way their terms and conditions are the same - they are doing the same job but we have somehow realised that they are actually doing more work. We never understood how much of a workload the board of NAMA would have even though we only set up the board a couple of weeks ago.", the reality is that Deputies and Senators on this side of the House would have voted against it. I am sure the Government Members would have voted it in but at least - this is what the Government really fears - the public would have known. If it was not for a parliamentary question tabled by Deputy Morgan, we would still be in the dark that this happened just a few days after the budget.