Joe O'Toole (Independent)

Let us be clear about what we are doing, what we need to look at and where responsibility should lie. There is a medical team which needs to answer questions, a management team which looks after that medical team, the board of Tallaght hospital, its chief executive, the HSE, the Minister and the Department of Health and Children. There are at least five stages of separation between the Minister and what happened. We are not doing the patients who are suffering and the victims any good by focusing on her. If the Minister was responsible and wrong in what she did let us point to that but blaming the Minister for something that happens on the ground demeans politics. It seems to happen in the area of health more than anywhere else and I do not believe it works.

We can ask ourselves questions on this. People have been speaking about the size of the board of Tallaght hospital. Those of us on the Independent benches insisted on a large board as did other Members of the House. There were good cultural, religious and other reasons that people wanted a large board. It was probably the wrong decision because a 20 person board is too big but let us all remember where we were when it was established and what jobs we gave them. The Minister appoints people to do a job; if they do not do that job it is they who are answerable in the first place. If the Minister asked them to do the wrong job then she is answerable. An audit would show this very clearly and we need to do justice to the victims by dealing with this matter properly.

A debate would be useful and I support Senator McFadden's call for somebody from the Department of Health and Children to come the House to discuss this. I want to hear what people state the Minister should have done but did not do. I want to hear what happened in Tallaght hospital that should not have happened and what should have happened but did not. We have to do a number of simple things; it is not rocket science. This is about good management, a cautious approach and incisive questioning.