Ivana Bacik (Independent)

I join Senator Fitzgerald in expressing concern about the outcome of the bishops' talks in the Vatican. It is appropriate, given the enormous influence the bishops continue to have in the institutions of the State through the system of patronage of schools, that we express our concern, as legislators, about the lack of any sense of responsibility or accountability on the part of the Vatican for the appalling abuse of children that continued for so many years in our religious-run and State-funded institutions. It is relevant for us. On the day that is in it, I ask for a debate on the relationship between the church and the State and, in the light of what Senator O'Toole said, on the ongoing control of the churches, particularly the Catholic Church, of our national school system. Considering that 92% of national schools are still run by the Catholic Church, it is important that we debate the relationship between church and State. Yesterday I expressed concern about the recognition by the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe, of two new Catholic schools at a time when parents were crying out for more choice in education and more multi-denominational schools. Archbishop Martin has recognised this. We need to debate the issue as a matter of urgency.

Let us not stop with the education system; let us also debate the role of prayer in our national institutions. Why, for example, do we have a prayer every time the Seanad sits? Why does the national broadcaster still broadcast the "Angelus"?