Ann Ormonde (Fianna Fail)

I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Education and Science and thank him for listening so attentively to Senators' contributions. This is an important debate because, as the media have reported extensively in recent days, the CAO has experienced a huge increase in applications. This is a welcome development on one level because it reveals the strong education ethos in Ireland. Education is a great asset for young people because a certificate or diploma is a string to one's bow in a crisis. People should develop themselves to their full potential.

However, challenges arise for those among the 71,000 CAO applicants who do not achieve college places. These applicants include students on their way to college, young people who decided two or three years ago to take up employment instead of continuing in education, and graduates, such as young engineers and architects, who have nowhere else to go.

There will be a fall-off in the numbers but it is important nevertheless that we examine how the system copes with the challenge. The range of educational institutions include universities, private colleges, institutes of technology, post-leaving certificate colleges, FÁS and local employment schemes. People will transition to third level in different ways. Young leaving certificate students have the best chance because their guidance counsellors will help them to choose the courses that suit them. However, I worry about those who have become unemployed since leaving the education system. For example, let us consider the national guidance service. How well equipped is it to know what kind of courses we should provide and what will be the jobs of the future? Have in-service courses been provided for those professionals to equip them to handle young graduates, early school leavers, those who dropped out of school but who had points and who now want to come back and those who want to go to an institute of technology for hands-on vocational training? Does the national guidance service have the necessary resources to do the job? Is the service available around the country? Is there a guidance service for adults? I accept it is part of the VEC system. The service was good in the past but I question how equipped it is today as things keep changing. Should we increase the number of guidance counsellors to ensure they are available in all areas? They are the core professionals who could help people in today's climate.

One is told in the local social welfare office that one can access the back to education allowance and that various courses are available. I do not think staff in those offices are sufficiently knowledgeable about the courses that are available. They should be able to direct people to a guidance counsellor through the FÁS system or the VEC system. A service should be available to the unemployed to help them find out what courses are available and which course would be suitable for each individual. It is important to consider the characteristics and attributes of individuals and their qualifications. Yesterday's qualifications might not suit tomorrow's requirements. We have to consider those issues now. In the long term, we need to increase the number of guidance counsellors.

We also need to consider the courses that are on offer. Courses should not start in October and finish in June. They should be available on an ongoing basis. Courses do not need to be of nine months duration. It should be possible for people to do course modules, for example between October and January. A second term could be available also which might be sufficient to tide a person over. Courses need to be more flexible.

Post-leaving certificate colleges, PLCs, are now considered to be at two and a half level. They are not full third level colleges but they are more advanced than second level colleges. PLCs should not close at 4 p.m. They should be open from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. and 4 p.m. to 9 p.m. The system should cater for all people, those who are doing their leaving certificate and those who come back to education through the VTOS system. A guidance counsellor would help them. PLCs have to be developed more than is currently the case.

Co-ordination is required between the three Departments, namely, the Department of Social and Family Affairs, the Department of Education and Science and the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. They have to work together. One cannot isolate them as the areas of responsibility overlap when one becomes unemployed. The Departments need to work closely together on the options that are available. I welcome the core group that has been set up to examine the ranking of our education system internationally, future challenges and what can be done with current resources. It is not always a question of money; it is important to consider the infrastructure that is in place and how we can provide the necessary service. We have enough professional people to carry us through while we work out our long-term vision.