Joe O'Toole (Independent)

There has been a very healthy debate all afternoon. It touched on many issues and it was good to hear a consensus emerging on how we approach the problem. We have examined this matter for years. It was good to hear Ms Grainne Kenny recognised today. I dread to think of how many years it was since we sat down together at a committee meeting; it must be 25. She has stuck with it all those years and deserves great credit for doing so.

I have long believed there should be a two-pronged approach focusing on both supply and demand. All the media comment tends to be on demand. In this regard, it was very good today to hear so many Senators focusing on education and advertising. We must have learned over the past decade that no matter how much legislation we put in place, as we must, and no matter how many resources we put in place, including Garda and customs resources, there is no doubt but that there will be a supply line as long as there is demand. While one could never hope to solve the drugs problem through targeting the supply line alone - drugs will always be brought into the country - one could hope to solve it permanently by focusing on demand. I have made this point many times because it points to our greatest hope for long-term and full success.

No matter what way one looks at the drugs problem, one will find an equal and opposite answer. A contrarian view can be applied to many parts of the problem. While one cannot make a logical case for decriminalising certain substances, it may be the case that certain drugs could be controlled better if their use were not a criminal offence. If it were not a criminal offence, we might see where the problem is happening. Let nobody believe I am suggesting that we decriminalise hard drugs and other drugs; that is not the point I am making.

We must put in place legislation that will deal with the way head shops are operating. Much can be done through ordinary planning-type approaches and by requiring the shops to at least meet certain minimum requirements, as would any other business. We do not seem to be considering this at all. We need solid legal sanctions, where necessary.

For me, it is a question of education and increasing the knowledge of young people. It is about challenging their attitudes and developing their skills and self-confidence such that they will say "No" and feel they do not need to take a drug. This is the real challenge. It is a societal matter and cannot be resolved by any one approach.

Some 25 years ago, I suggested that every school in Europe should have a member of staff or other person with expertise in drugs education. Thinking in this regard has evolved to some extent since then, but not nearly enough. The drugs education resources in countries where they have been put in place are considerable. It is a matter of building drugs education properly and fully into the curriculum with clear objectives and key performance indicators. Rather than looking at outcomes, we must concentrate on what we include in the curricula of pupils of various age groups. If we do not do so, there is no question but that we will never succeed. We need to provide people with honest and accurate information.

We have learned many times that the risk issue is irrelevant. That people can get killed using drugs is of no value whatsoever in drugs education. If anything, risk is an attraction to many people, including the young. Nobody would have ever got to the top of Mount Everest without taking a risk and nobody would have broken records associated with speed and height if they did not take risks. The risk attitude is important to us as legislators but it is utterly unimportant to the young people. One might as well tell them not to drive fast. One can make this case but must do so in a much more smart, clever and strategic way. Therefore, we have to give accurate and honest information. We cannot tell people, "This will kill you," if it will not because they are smart enough to know otherwise. There has to be honesty. Parents and teachers must be brave enough to challenge the attitudes of those who are using drugs or tempted to do so. We also need to examine the relationship between drug use and what it does to communities, families and homes over generations. Young people understand these matters, whereas warnings of personal risk could be a turn-on, rather than a turn-off, for them. If, however, it is explained to them what drugs can do to their families and if this is built into a properly structured programme, something can be done about the problem. In addition, we need expert support at all levels to identify those moving into the shady area of drug abuse.

While I have only touched on the subject, I welcome this debate. I also welcome the Minister of State, Deputy John Curran, and the fact that the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Mary Harney, was present earlier. We can take the matter forward by having it examined by a special group, as Senator Wilson suggested.