Feargal Quinn (Independent)

I wish to share time with Senator Ross. I have listened to every Member who has spoken in this debate and I have found it very interesting. In two weeks' time I will begin my 18th year in the Seanad. I appreciate the opportunity to have become involved and many Members share that view. I have been impressed with the level of debate in the Seanad during those 18 years and with what has been done. I agree entirely with those who maintain we are not recognised. However, if we are not recognised, it is our own fault and we can do something about it ourselves. There have been regular debates on reform of the Seanad during that time and this is just another such debate.

The Seanad does not need more power. If we need more power, we should earn it ourselves, and there are examples of where we have earned it. I am not in favour of a more confrontational Seanad. I believe we have learned over the years how to benefit from debates, but we must work together to do so. If we are to achieve more recognition, we must do something about the elections. I am concerned that the only electoral changes likely to take place will involve the university seats. I agree fully that university graduates not currently represented should be represented. However, I would be greatly disappointed if we went to the trouble of making changes in the House but that the only basic changes related to the university seats. That would not be useful.

The concept of vocational panels established in the 1937 Constitution was very worthy and worthwhile, and this is well recognised. We sought to have those vocational interests recognised but then all 43 votes were transferred to county councillors and it ended up that the 43 votes became party political. Once that happens, a confrontational issue arises. University votes in general have seldom elected party political Members and that has meant better opportunities. We should avoid politicians being elected from those 43 votes. I do not disagree with having the Taoiseach nominate a certain number of people. It almost allows the Government the guarantee of a majority, although not necessarily. The five Independent Members between 1994 and 1997 had the pleasure of holding the balance of power and one could see the benefits of that.

Earlier today, Senator O'Toole made the point that one worthy objective in the past was to hold Dáil and Seanad elections on the same day. I do not disagree with young, upcoming politicians envisaging election to this House as the first step on their road to the other House. I have no objection to that and I am perfectly pleased to see it. However, I am not quite so pleased to see someone who has lost their seat in the other House return here and stay until he or she gets a chance to go back there, because the heart is not in the right place. Senator O'Toole made a proposal I had not heard before but I believe it is worthwhile and worthy of consideration.

The fact that the issue is being raised again through Private Members' time shows how little we are moving forward on the issue of Seanad reform. I have shared my views on the subject many times before and I wish to explore a different angle this time. There is a similar debate on reform of Canada's Senate at the moment. It is not an elected body. There has been of the order of more than 30 proposals for its reform since the 1970s and in Canada, as in Ireland, there is even talk of its abolition. Thus, we are not the only ones. There is a significant concern in Canada of the amount of trouble in which they could end up if they proceeded with abolition and that it could cause untold problems. This is due to the way in which the Senate is formed based on the constitution. I read a remark to the effect that opening up the Canadian constitution would "tear the country apart". We could face similar problems in this country and that is simply one aspect of the debate.

The Seanad has a good deal of what political scientists term "output legitimacy", which means it does relevant and effective work and has done so throughout the years. However, it lacks input legitimacy because the way in which Senators are elected to the House is lacking in credibility. I refer to the vocational panels designed to produce a variety of experience and expertise. They have been rendered much less representative largely because of the politics I talked about which confines the electoral college to those who themselves were elected. We must move forward with legislation and extend the power to elect those from the vocational panels in a different manner. I believe we can do something about this.

I have touched only on election to the Seanad. A number of Senators, including the Leader, spoke about changes we can make to the work we do in the House. That is the second big challenge. Let us ensure we take it on and make this a more worthy, representative and recognised panel.