Liam Twomey (Fine Gael)

Deputy Enda Kenny's proposal is to put in a referendum to the people the question of whether we need to have two Chambers in the Oireachtas. Ultimately, it is the people who will decide what type of system we will have for the future. In the here and now those who are most important in considering the issue of reform within the Oireachtas are the parties in government. There have been eight reports on reform of the Seanad. It is clear, therefore, that very little has been done. Constitutional changes are required in respect of all the reforms proposed for this Chamber, but nothing has ever been done.

First and foremost, the Government needs to pull up its socks and get a move on in changing the way the Seanad is run and how it operates if we are to win the confidence of the people that this Chamber is relevant. I have no doubt that there are great debates, including legislative scrutiny, in this Chamber. For five years I was a Member of the Lower House where I was my party's spokesperson on health. There is the same quality of debate and commitment to politics in this House. If I am asked to do so by my party, I will stand for election to the Lower House again. However, as regards being a politician, I find the role of Senator somewhat limited. While I have access to officials in the civil and public service through my role as a Member of the Oireachtas, there are serious problems in this House. It is up to the Leader and the Government parties to make the required changes.

I have worked in the private sector in which I ran a general medical practice. There was a day-to-day business element, as well as an emergency service element, which cannot be planned in advance. In some respects, this House reflects that position. There are things that can change at short notice and matters that can be planned for well in advance. At times, however, the business of the House is chaotic. This would be unacceptable in the private sector.

Reference has been made to Senator Quinn. If he ran his business the way this House is managed, he would not be in business. He would be unknown because he would have been broke years ago. As that reflects what happens in the House, we need to make changes. If we want to be relevant, we can make ourselves so. For instance, we put questions to the Leader on the Order of Business and ask him to obtain replies from Ministers, yet I have not once received a letter stating what a Minister thinks of my request. I am sure that goes for Members on both sides of the House. Notwithstanding the fact that the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, is present, Ministers do not pay much attention to what happens in this House. Many avoid turning up here. For instance, there is no commitment on the part of Ministers to attend on Committee and Report Stages of legislation to see what amendments are tabled and if adjustments need to be made. Ministers of State attend the House and say they will refer back to the Minister, or else they just stonewall and do nothing. It makes the House look irrelevant, which is the public perception of the Seanad.

We can stand up for ourselves and discuss the matter as Opposition Members, but it is up to Government representatives to put pressure both on their party leaders and Ministers to show a strong commitment on how the House works. We do not need to dive straight into constitutional issues. Reform can start by reorganising the business of the House and getting Ministers to make it relevant. It is a two-way process in that we can also take direction from the Leader and the Cathaoirleach or Acting Chairman if speeches are considered to be irrelevant in debates or if Members are making Second Stage speeches on Committee or Report Stage. However, it is up to the Leader to start giving the required leadership. The Government often dictates what happens here, which can be to the detriment of how we are perceived. If the Leader is instructed by the Government not to facilitate matters, we are the ones who look foolish because we will not be seen to be debating topical issues or to deal properly with legislation. We have a role in making the House more relevant. If we make ourselves more relevant, we will be more relevant to the people.

I will cite one example, of which Ministers are well aware. All of the Oireachtas Members for County Wexford were asked to meet to discuss the issue of policing committees. As I was in the House, Senator Walsh went to the meeting to represent Senators. The five Wexford Deputies voted to take the five positions on the policing body themselves. They deemed the Senators to be irrelevant. However, I do not believe the Minister can do anything about this. I do not even know if he has any views on whether there should be at least one Senator on various State or local authority bodies, including policing committees. At present there is nothing to stop the five Deputies from taking such positions, thus excluding Members of the Seanad. The Minister could take this on board and sort out the matter quickly on our behalf.

We should bear in mind a health and safety issue for staff of the Houses of the Oireachtas, as well as departmental staff who assist Ministers. The carry on in sitting late into the night, with no idea of whether we will sit on Mondays, Tuesdays or Fridays, is absolutely stupid. It is disrespectful to those working in the Oireachtas and Departments. They must make provision to get home, sometimes after midnight. In addition, when they come to work, they do not know if they will be working late. That might be fine for many of us; perhaps we like to be machismo in working all night and doing things backwards, but what about the staff? We are asking people who work for us to go home late at night. They may not be able to afford taxis and buses may no longer be running. They are going onto the streets late at night, which is unnecessary. The health and safety aspect applies to everyone who works late, including the ushers who are here all day and work long nights. I have no doubt that from a medical viewpoint such a working environment places unnecessary stress on staff. This should stop.

When we discuss reform, the big questions relate to constitutional issues and how we can change the electoral system. If we really wanted to do so, in this session we change the small things I have outlined. That would result in a serious alteration to the way in which the House is run, as well as to how it is perceived. We should have respect for those who serve us as Members of this House and in Departments.