Liam Twomey (Fine Gael)

I hope the Minister of State is right. If he is going there, I hope he enjoys the day. It is quite a special occasion to be at Newgrange for the winter solstice.

This Bill, in many respects, is the end of year accounts detailing how much the Government spent and where the money was spent. I propose that a third Schedule be included in the Bill listing details of the Government's income for the year. We tend to focus on where money is spent and throughout this Bill there is reference to that, but a list detailing from where the Government obtained its income might be useful for people in making comparisons about from where the State gathers income and where it spends money. The Minister of State might comment on whether that information can be included in the Bill.

In the prebudget information we received from the Department of Finance one graph stood out dramatically. It is the one that plots Government income and expenditure since 2000. It shows that Government income and expenditure was increasing year on year and that there was a massive divergence in the past two years during which expenditure was still extremely high but revenue was extremely low. Having regard to that graph, I find it difficult to understand how the Minister of State can be so confident about the reductions the Government will make next year or the year after, given that the gap between income and expenditure is substantial. He spoke about stabilising the economy in the years ahead and said that by 2014 the budget will be within a projected 3% deficit. What amount of money is it projected the State will have borrowed by that period? If we are to borrow €20 billion next year and that amount in 2011, 2012 and 2013, we could end up borrowing another €100 billion before we reach the position that our public finances are stabilised. What are the projected Government borrowing figures for the next few years? Such figures will have a huge knock-on effect on the public services we can provide. We know already that for next year €2 billion of the €4 billion that will be saved will have to go towards paying interest on additional loans we have already managed to gather. We need to know these figures to have some idea of the position that will prevail in the next few years.

The Minister of State spoke about alterations to pensions. He said that all new entrants into the civil and public service will have a new pension scheme from the end of next year onwards. It will be more like the pension most people in the private sector have in that it will be a defined contributions pension rather than a defined benefit pension. What is the position of existing pensioners and that of potential pensioners who are existing members of the civil and public service? The Minister of State said that legislation would be introduced next year, but the Government needs to publish that legislation as a matter of urgency and perhaps even in draft form for us to have an idea of the Government's plans for those people. That issue is causing great concern for public and civil servants, especially those who have the option to retire in the next couple of years. The matter should be discussed now because it will have a significant effect. It is not necessary to delay the Appropriation Bill, as I will speak more about this matter when we discuss the next Bill. I refer to the efficiencies and changes to work practices the Minister hopes to achieve in the civil and public service. Benchmarking payments made to everyone in the public sector have effectively been taken back through the measures introduced in the past two budgets. A different attitude is apparent among the leadership of the public sector unions to the achievement of further efficiencies and changes to work practices. That will have a significant knock-on effect on the delivery and cost of services. Perhaps the Minister of State might comment on this.