Martin Brady (Fianna Fail)

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Haughey. As other speakers said, nobody likes cutting payments. Senator Buttimer made one point with which I must agree with regard to the astronomical salaries that heads of semi-State bodies are being paid. It is anything from €200,000 to €500,000 but nobody is worth any more than €250,000 irrespective of the responsibilities they have. If a person cannot survive on that, he or she must be doing something wrong.

Senator Quinn put it very well earlier when he said that one cannot give out what one does not have. If money is not brought in at the till, it cannot be given out. There are many anomalies in the social welfare system that I will discuss in general, one of which relates to jobseekers. Jobseekers are asked to go around to potential employers and get a letter indicating that they applied for a job. To my mind that is farcical as they are getting letters from people in shops etc. where no job would exist in any case. It would be far more convenient for jobseekers to get a signed affidavit proving that they cannot get a job.

There are cases where young people are living with parents and are not entitled to anything if the parents do not satisfy a means test. If these young people leave the home and rent an apartment or house, they would be much better off because they would get rent supplement and jobseeker's allowance etc. If they live at home, such people would not be entitled to anything if the parents exceed the means test. Child benefit was spoken about earlier. I cannot understand why multimillionaires get this benefit. The Minister mentioned that means testing of this benefit would be very difficult but I would like her to explain this.

Senator Quinn made another very important point on a PRSI reduction for employers, which would keep businesses afloat and enable people to start new businesses. The trick is to get people off jobseeker's allowance or dole and get them working. We have circumstances where it is more profitable for people to stay at home than go to work, which is a real problem. It is not worth some people's while working because the benefits are greater when they are drawing jobseeker's allowance. That is a bad position not just from a financial perspective but for the people involved; it can eventually put a drain on health services if people get depressed staying at home or hanging around. It is not a good position.

The minimum wage was also alluded to by Senator Quinn. I am not one to advocate a cut in wages but we had a meeting last week with restaurant owners. They claim that many restaurants will have to close due to the minimum wage being too high. The rules of the National Employment Rights Authority apply on weekends and treble time must be paid on some days. It may not be worthwhile opening the doors on such days.

We must consider these anomalies. Only two weeks ago a person in the plumbing business came to me who employed six people. He is afflicted with multiple sclerosis and is not entitled to any benefits whatever. I put him in touch with people in the social welfare office and he got a couple of hundred euro per week for a period. That payment has ceased.

There is a significant problem where I am from in Kilbarrack as it is impossible for clients to get through to people in the social welfare offices, although I am sure the staff are very diligent and work hard. I am sure the Minister of State, Deputy Haughey, is aware of the problem where nobody can be got on the other end of the telephone. Clients are queuing for three or four hours a day and something must be done about this. People should be redeployed from areas where they are not engaged to the same extent in order to give people a proper service. It is bad enough to be unemployed but to have to queue in the rain outside a social welfare office is no way to treat our citizens. I ask the Minister to look at the problem very quickly because it is not a good scenario.

There are many resource and other types of centres funded by the Department of Social and Family Affairs. Most of these do a good job, which I have said before to the Minister, but there is much duplication. I do not have any hard evidence but I am told that they are never checked and no accountants are ever sent in. There is little checking of any description, even to see if they give value for money or are necessary. The number of people put through the centres on a daily, weekly or monthly basis is not verified.

The people in these centres probably do the best they can but we must examine the sector. There is no point in throwing out money if we are not getting value for it or the people who are supposed to be availing of a service are not getting it. Some of the centres have notices on the window indicating they are open from 9 a.m. to 12 p.m. I have evidence of that and it is not good enough.

Senator Buttimer made an emotional speech. He is gone now but I would have liked to ask what alternatives or suggestions he has. What would he do about this? As Senator Quinn indicated, we cannot give out what we do not have. It is the same as a person doing a household budget. I do not think the Minister enjoys doing this; it has been very difficult for her and she has done a fairly good job with the cuts she had to make. Every Department must make cuts or else we will become bankrupt some day.