Lisa McDonald (Fianna Fail)

As Senator Bradford said, this report portrays an appalling vista. I join colleagues who have complimented the Minister on the compassion he has shown in his office. If there is any method by which the recommendations in this and the Ryan reports can be implemented, the Minister could go down in history as one of the people who put this State on the right track.

I had a conversation with a woman a couple of years ago, before either of these reports was produced. She was an alternative therapist and I recall her telling me that Ireland has a great deal of healing to do. I continuously think of her remark. I believe she was from Australia; she was not from Ireland anyway. There was a great deal in what she said. A number of different organisations in our society have had abusers within those organisations. The church has been huge in that context in terms of the absolute abuse and appalling behaviour that occurred and the number of paedophiles it contained. It appears that people tended to go into the church to hide, possibly because of the deference this State paid to canon law. They knew that deference existed. We need to get behind the mindset of those who did this. We need the church to tell us why it reckons paedophiles and abusers gravitated towards its culture and believed they could hide within it. If we are to move on as a people, the church must answer these questions.

As politicians and parents, with everyone else in society we must ask why we allowed this situation to continue. People claim they did not know, but I do not believe them. When I was 15 years of age, I attended a girls' secondary school beside St. Peter's college in Wexford. Some of the chaps with whom I hung around used to say someone or other was a Fr. Collins' boy. The paedophile ring in the college was cited in the Ferns Report. Deep down, we knew about all of this, although we might not have had the courage to face it for the past 30 or 40 years. I agree that we need resignations and that bishops' heads need to roll. This would not be an answer, but it would be a small step that could be taken to show some sorrow on the part of the church, as Senator Bradford mentioned.

Merely discussing the issue, however, will get us nowhere. Let us not lose track of where we are. We need to put systems in place to ensure this situation will not recur. Whether we are discussing the church, the GAA or, given the number of incidents of child abuse involving coaches at swimming pools, every parent must be able to say his or her child is safe in an organisation. The State has not reacted to this necessity, which is the message we must take from the report. The stories it contains are appalling and difficult to read. Senator Feeney stated she had to put it down several times. Like me, she probably has not read all of it because it is far too upsetting. However, we must face up to the fact that it all occurred.

In the light of the Ryan, Ferns and Murphy reports and the issues about which we have heard concerning the Magdalene laundries, we must deal with the issues raised and put systems in place. The Minister of State should be a Minister, for which I have been calling for a long time and I know I am right. If he is to deal with this matter properly, he must have a seat at the Cabinet. There are cross-departmental and cross-unit responses required from the Departments of Education and Science, Justice, Equality and Law Reform and Health and Children, the HSE and the Garda, all of which are involved in the protection of children. If we cannot protect them, I do not know where we are going.

Yesterday in Wexford I attended a presentation by FAB, a domestic violence group, as part of the 16-day campaign against domestic violence and abuse. A poem was read out, although I do not have it to hand. It was written by a child of approximately ten or 12 years who describes the hands of a male as being creative and brilliant but asks why the man uses them violently against the child instead of putting them to best use. I was struck by this poem. Another was written by a little girl who was being minded by her granny. I ask for the Chair's forgiveness. I am upset about this issue because I recently had a baby. That little girl asked where her mother had gone but received no answers.

For some time I have been stating we have enough reports. While I commend Judge Yvonne Murphy and the commission for going through this difficult process and recognise that we need information, there has been a great deal of debate on the questions of church and State and whether we need to leave the church behind and rewrite the Constitution. These questions are relevant, but if the State is not willing or able to react appropriately by putting systems in place to avoid a recurrence, we are doing nothing.

I spoke to the principal of a small primary school in south-east Wexford who told me that she had reported three incidences of abuse to the HSE and the appropriate child care officer. It was clear to her that the children concerned were upset and that something was wrong. They may have been interviewed, but when she rang the HSE a couple of weeks later to find out whether anything had been done, she was told the case had been closed. We do not have sufficient resources. There is no point in those of us on this side of the House pretending that we are doing something about the overall issues involved when it is clear that we are not. This is a significant issue. We can build roads and schools, but none of it will make any difference if people are not safe and happy. We must reverse the order in the way we do things and put procedures in place. Children are too important to play politics with.

Other forms of abuse include bullying, harassment and the many variations of domestic violence and abuse. We have not revisited the issue of domestic violence since 1996, but even that Act is paltry and has many holes. Last night "Prime Time" ran a story on the report of the Law Reform Commission on rape and the small number of convictions achieved in that regard. The damage the Irish do to one another is unbelievable, but our laws do not protect us from it. We need to stop discussing the church.

Although I cannot find the appropriate section, part of the commission's report states a firm, simple and unmistakable procedure for the promulgation of the law is a basic feature of every coherent legal system. However, we do not have such a procedure. The report goes on to state the absence of such a procedure within church law makes the latter difficult to access and its implementation and monitoring of compliance difficult. The law is not being implemented. People should be thrown in jail if they have abused others. State law is superior to Canon Law. The report provides examples to show the Garda not had faced up to the problem.

Although we are debating issues of church and State, I have heard many examples where people reported domestic abuse to the Garda but were told that the Garda was not interested in getting involved in incidents in the family home because it did not want to delve into the issue. That is why matters at Monageer went as far as they did, according to the relevant report. There are many crimes committed against women and children in the family home because we are not reacting in the appropriate manner.

It is an appalling vista, but I am amazed by people's surprise at what is contained in the report. Everyone who has had a Catholic education, which means most of us, knew what was going on. We have watched films such as "The Butcher Boy" and others on the Magdalene laundries. The facts have been known. Therefore, we need to change our mindset. Some point out that the report only relates to a certain number of abusers and that there are good priests who do good work, just as there are good teachers, but equally there are teachers who abuse. There are brilliant parents who go to the nth degree to ensure their children's safety and education and do not allow them to walk home from school anymore. That we do not believe our children can walk on a path from A to B without being abducted or abused is a damning indictment of us as a people. We are distrustful of each other, instead of keeping an eye out for one another. Abuse occurred and is occurring, mostly in the family home.

I could go on talking about this emotive issue. The report is timely. Yesterday I dealt with the case of an anorexic girl who had go to Great Ormond Street Hospital because she could not get a bed elsewhere. She is lucky that her parents have the money to pay for it. The State does not provide beds for anorexic patients. A couple of weeks ago I dealt with the case of a child who needed psychiatric help but was in a ward with older people dying from various diseases. If he had been left there for very long, he might have a case against the State. That will happen one day.

District courts have no facilities to deal with the constant flow of cases from domestic violence and abuse of children and all such happenings. We do not seem to have the compassion to deal with it. Yes, all the things we are doing as a Government are very important but action on this is probably more important. We must prioritise it after the budget which will get the economy back on track. It is as important. How many more lives will we allow to go down the tubes? We can throw church members in jail if they are guilty. We have laws and procedures to deal with that and those people should be dealt with. If the arms of this State do not deal with them, we have a problem.

As politicians, let us pledge this immediately. Let the Minister of State pledge to the children of Ireland that this will never happen again and State procedures will be put in place that will be strong enough to ensure it does not happen again.