Paul Bradford (Fine Gael)

I agree with Senator Daly's request for a discussion on Gaza at some stage in the future. However, I wish the situation there was as simplistic as he has presented it. The issue of Gaza and the Middle East in general is very complicated, to put it mildly, and there are two sides to the story, both historically and politically. The idea that bashing one side will somehow solve the problem is very unrepresentative of the real situation. However, we will return to that issue on another occasion.

I agree with my colleague, Senator McFadden, about the urgent need for a debate on potential social welfare fraud. As a people, the Irish have a very uneasy relationship with both paying taxes and claiming social welfare. Let us be honest; there has been a traditional view that if one can get away with something, so be it. It is a type of gold medal in cute hoorism if one manages to evade taxation or claim social welfare fraudulently. I hope in the current environment of genuine economic distress, with the country on the verge of bankruptcy, the nation will be more mature in its response to taxation and social welfare issues. I am not sure of the figures for social welfare fraud or whether last night's programme indicated the correct figures. If social welfare moneys are being claimed fraudulently, it amounts to theft from those who need them more urgently - the elderly, children and those in need. Therefore, I support Senator McFadden's call for the Minister to address the matter.

I support the call made by my colleagues for a debate on public sector reform. Last week union representatives highlighted the areas in which they considered progress could be made, but I must ask why it has taken 20 years of partnership to reach these conclusions. I hope they were being genuine and that the reform options put on the table last week are still on it. As Senator Cannon expressed so well, the people deserve no less. With the Leader, we should champion that debate. I am tired of requesting that we lead it. If the Leader wants the House to be relevant, he should allow us to take on board the issue of public sector reform. Let us talk and listen to the stakeholders and debate the issues involved. That should be the role of this House in the next few crucial months.