Seanad debates

Thursday, 3 December 2009

Houses of the Oireachtas Commission (Amendment) Bill 2009: Second Stage

 

Photo of Liam TwomeyLiam Twomey (Fine Gael)

At a time when we are trying to be more accountable to the general public on financial issues, we should have tightened the figures a little better and provided for more clarity in other sections. For example, section 5 deals with codes of conduct, but the Minister should publish them to give us a greater idea of what is going on. Perhaps, the Minister of State will have the opportunity next week on Report Stage to present them to us to give us a better idea of the terms under which the members of the commission will work.

In the budget, as presented to us, the average cost of running the Oireachtas has been €120 million per annum in the past two years. It is unlikely this will change significantly in the next few years. If anything, the amount will reduce significantly. The figures presented allow for a figure of €120 million per annum, but perhaps we should have tightened up better on it. Next week's budget may well bring changes to the pay of Ministers and Members of the Oireachtas. Therefore, there was an opportunity to present a figure to the public that might be closer to the real thing. The headline figure is €120 million per annum, but the Minister of State made no allowance in what he said for changes that may be made. I know he cannot predict when the next general election will take place or what may happen. If the current opinion polls are to be believed, a fair amount will be needed for severance payments to certain members of the Government. Allowance must be made for this. However, in general, we expect a significant drop in the cost of running the Oireachtas in the next year or two. This should have been taken into account by the Minister of State in presenting the figures.

The information made available to us by the Oireachtas Library and Research Service shows us there was an increase of 34% in the cost of running the Oireachtas in the second three-year period, 2007 to 2009. The budget went from a figure of €295 to €393 million. It is stated the extra €100 million was due to severance payments and pension costs associated with the 2007 general election, the commission's decisions on service improvements and staffing resources and the provision of a translation service to translate Acts of the Oireachtas. Will the Minister of State provide a breakdown of costs in each of these areas?

I would like the Minister of State to take into account that the budget for running the Oireachtas should include ministerial expenses. Members of the Houses are fully accountable with regard to their expenses and in making them public. However, ministerial costs are covered up within Departments. In order to provide for greater transparency and accountability Departments should not be responsible for ministerial costs. That function should be performed by the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission. In today's newspapers, for example, mention is made of a €41,000 secretarial allowance Ministers receive above the normal Civil Service staff complement and separate from their entitlements as Members. It appears this secretarial allowance is not paid from the Oireachtas budget but from that of the relevant Department. There are a number of other allowances also paid to Ministers such as a housing allowance for Ministers from outside Dublin who buy a house in Dublin. Ministers have a range of benefits, of which many are unaware and which it seems are unaccounted for to a degree because they are buried in the middle of departmental budgets. All such ministerial costs should be transferred to the budget of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission. Also, a note should be included in the commission's report on all additional costs such as the cost of State cars or providing State services for Ministers. That is the accountability the public wants to see at this time.

A significant change is being made to the audit committee which to date has been non-statutory. The audit committee shall be established on a statutory basis. I ask the Minister of State to outline the proposed changes and the implications for members of the audit committee. We have seen in the case of the banks and other organisations that an audit committee often does not understand its function very well and may be merely acting in a rubber-stamping capacity for decisions made by a chief executive or board of directors. An audit committee which is established by statute would imply further responsibilities for the members of the committee. I ask the Minister of State to explain those responsibilities.

The Bill provides that the senior civil servant, the Clerk of Dáil Éireann, will be designated Secretary General of the service and chief executive of the commission. What are the financial costs, if any, associated with the change in status of that person? A Secretary General of a Department is paid substantially more. I ask the Minister of State to clarify whether the Secretary General of the Houses of the Oireachtas Service will be of similar standing and whether this will have financial implications.

There is a need for a tightening up of the financial information presented to the House and there are opportunities under all headings. I ask for information on both past and predicted future costs. The Minister of State needs to be clear with regard to the changing functions of the commission, the code of conduct for commission members and the changes in responsibilities of members of the audit committee. We will be seeking greater clarity on these points on Committee and Report Stages.

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