Martin Mansergh (Tipperary South, Fianna Fail)

The second option is that we could abdicate altogether, default on our debts and let the IMF come in. The third option, advocated by Senators Quinn and Walsh, is that the Government could go in far harder. The suggestion was that it was not a figure of €4 billion that was required but €5 billion, €8 billion or another figure. The fourth alternative is for the Government to put much more emphasis on increasing taxes and less on expenditure reductions. The difficulty with that option is that increasing tax rates would not necessarily lead to an increase in the tax yield; it might even diminish it.

Apart from the political points made at the beginning of his contribution, Senator Twomey gave a very sound analysis of the seriousness of the position in which we find ourselves. I largely agree with him on the need for action. There was a point debated in the background and the Senator used the word "hubris". He said we had over-extended, become over-ambitious and unrealistic about our prospects and that we should have taken action earlier. I agree.

I do not accept Senator Mullen's notion which has been propagated that in the time of the former Taoiseach, in particular, the answer to every demand was "Yes." Senator O'Toole will remember the nurses' strike in 2007, when the answer was "No." I remember an occasion five or six years before when the ASTI did not want benchmarking and engaged in a prolonged action and the Government held perfectly firm.