Cecilia Keaveney (Fianna Fail)

I am pleased to debate any issues connected with marine matters. I welcome the Minister of State to the Seanad. He has adopted a hands-on approach to marine matters and is not afraid to travel long distances to meet fishermen in any port.

On Monday last I was in Brussels meeting two of the directors general which deal with marine and rural development. We were looking at how EU funding would be distributed after 2013. The Baltic states have united on a number of projects which do not necessarily involve new funding but which co-ordinate existing structures to maximise their potential and draw down new funding, should it become available. The question with which we are trying to grapple is, with an expanded Europe, if European Union funding will be given out on the basis of people working in co-operation with each other. If so, where do our natural bonds lie? To which countries should we look? Marine was very much at the centre of that debate. Maritime issues were also very much part of it. Our question was whether the new British Irish Council would be able to form an entity which would be able to draw down enough support at EU level. The answer we received was that more than two states would need to work together and that it should be three or four states. The question then was whether we should work on an Atlantic axis - north-western Europe - and with which states we should work.

It is very easy to talk about France and agriculture and the mutual issues on which we fight together. However, if we look at the marine sector and our shared space, much of that shared space is water. We have shared opportunities but we also have shared issues, including marine security, the peddling of drugs and human trafficking. Wales and Ireland have interconnectors to ensure the supply of gas. However, we do not have a wind farm which would lay cables and ensure a supply to these interconnectors.

A number of issues were raised at that meeting and one might ask what they have to do with the Foreshore and Dumping at Sea Bill. The fundamental message with which we came home was from one of the directorates which threw its hands in the air and asked us how we could start to deal with other countries in regard to the marine if we did not have a Department of the marine. While I very much welcome the idea of a cross-departmental body announced earlier this year - I know the Minister of State was driving the concept - the marine area is diverse. The concept of working interdepartmentally is the way things need to go. If we talk about energy supply, we are talking about the environment and if we talk about fishing, we are talking about the marine. Smuggling and justice issues concern the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. In some respects, we are wrong not to have a Department of the marine but we are right to work interdepartmentally.

This needs to be driven by one core ministry. I know it is not within the Minister of State's gift to rejig current Departments but the value and opportunities in the marine sector need to be re-evaluated and reprioritised at Government level. This is an island and our potential is in our island status. There is an element of the marine attached to many of our current difficulties and to the challenges we face in terms of the economy, climate change, security of energy supply etc.

Many Members spoke about the co-ordination and co-operation necessary at that level but I wish to return to the Bill and the issue of the foreshore. In the Foyle, a third party is claiming the foreshore, namely, the Crown Estate. The Crown Estate was like a tax collection agency for the Queen. Now it is more like a private industry which, to all intents and purposes, lifts money on behalf of a private company. When I receive information from the Department of Foreign Affairs or the Minister for Finance, I am told they are working with the British Government and that it concerns the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food.

My difficulty in regard to the foreshore and who owns and operates it is in the context of the Foyle and its tributaries. A Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food should speak to his or her counterpart in the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development in the North and not to the Crown Estate.

I started my contribution by talking about many countries with a shared space working together. There are two jurisdictions in the Foyle and its tributaries operating a shared space. We also have the Loughs Agency. Let the Crown Estate prove its entitlement to the foreshore of the Foyle. I do not believe it would be able to do so. In 1920 Ireland was given back its islands, coast, rivers and tributaries but the Six Counties were taken out. The Crown Estate or anyone else has very shaky legs on which to stand when claiming the foreshore. I have received very unsatisfactory answers in this regard.

For some years the economy of the north west has been bleak. We have a great opportunity with the Foyle and its tributaries to develop in a co-ordinated and clear fashion many marine-related, although not marine specific, opportunities. I would like one agency to look after the air above the Foyle, the water of the Foyle and the seabed beneath the Foyle. I would like the Loughs Agency to be expanded and to have a role in regard to the marine, jet skiing, justice, planning and environmental matters. In other words, it should have full responsibility for the Foyle.

When I challenged the Crown Estate as to its entitlement in regard to the Foyle, I was told it would make no claims on the Foyle until such time as the two Governments made a decision on the jurisdictional issue. Let us not make a decision on the jurisdictional issue. Let the joint body which exists have total responsibility for the Foyle. We must not let any other body, whether the Duke of Abercorn, the Honourable the Irish Society or the Crown Estate, claim the foreshore unless they can prove their claim beyond doubt but I do not believe any of them could do so.

While it might not seem relevant to this Bill, we have a significant foreshore problem in the Foyle. It is leading to people who have fished on the Foyle and its tributaries being alienated. I would like the Minister of State and the other Departments which have some responsibility in this regard to intervene because I cannot get answers. Each time I ask a question, I am told another Minister is responsible. I wish the Bill well and hope it has positive implications for me in the foreshore difficulties I have in my area.