Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Calleary. Although we propose to introduce amendments on Committee Stage, Fine Gael supports the Bill. I agree with Senator Carty that a significant challenge for FÁS is the situation of apprentices who are unable to continue their training. Even if we do nothing else, that issue must be addressed as a matter of urgency.

In his speech, the Minister of State referred to the 412,400 people who are unemployed and welcomed the fall in the live register in October. The reality, however, is that the Government has no coherent plan to tackle the unemployment crisis. It is imperative that there be a focus on effective strategies for moving people from welfare to work. There was an interesting article in The Irish Times last Thursday which analysed the potential situation of a married couple with two children according to whether they were PAYE workers, unemployed or self-employed. Surely we are all agreed that a system which allows a person on social welfare to have more income than a working person, either PAYE or self-employed, is unacceptable.

We now find ourselves in the unfortunate position that the vast amount of good work being done in training centres throughout the State, such as the one in Rossa Avenue in Cork, and via community employment schemes in every parish, sporting club and community organisation, is tarnished by the activities of a minority. This important Bill is about restoring confidence in the structures of FÁS and in how it does its business. The Government could have gone further in the provisions regarding the appointment of the board. I agree with Senator Boyle that it is time to change FÁS's name, corporate image, logo and branding. That image is ruined beyond repair. I say that as somebody who is involved in the community employment scheme in my local GAA club and who has visited the training centre in Cork on numerous occasions. The pride of the workers and instructors there is second to none but the reality is that the reputation of the agency is tarnished beyond repair.

The blame for this must rest at one level with the political masters who were aloof and distant. Nothing was done when the pay bill for FÁS management rose twice as fast, at 77%, as that for non-managers and when the number of managers increased by 71%. What would the Taoiseach say to the Minister of State if it were the latter who oversaw such developments? He would send the Minister of State to the backbenches and would promote Deputy Flynn or somebody else from Mayo. A situation where the number of managers rose 18 times faster than the number of operational staff was clearly unsustainable. I am not being political in saying that is farcical stuff. If the Minister of State were on this side of the House he would say exactly the same.

We must have a new training authority. The Committee of Public Accounts, under the chairmanship of Deputy Allen, did the State a great service in its investigations in this area. There was something rotten in FÁS. Any right thinking and fair minded person will acknowledge it was rotten beyond contempt. I agree fundamentally with Senator Carty that we must have a training authority that has as its sole motivation and objective the upskilling and retraining of people for the purpose of helping them to enter the world of work. That is what a State training and employment agency must be about. I say that as a person who spent eight years as a director of adult education in a local school. We speak about trust and confidence but the reality is that people are laughing at FÁS.

One of the greatest challenges facing the agency is the reluctance of people on social welfare to go into the world of work. That is not to say that I do not accept people are unable to find work in some cases. Through this legislation we must allow FÁS to manage its services in such a way that people will buy into the idea that the FÁS training regime is an effective provider of re-education and upskilling of the highest quality.

The Minister of State referred to effective governance, which we all want, but will that result from the reform of the agency under this legislation? Will the Fianna Fáil Party make FÁS fit for purpose? It has been known for a long time that the agency carried on like a Fianna Fáil cumann, whether the Minister of State likes it or not. He can dismiss that but that is the reality and it has been proven by what has happened. There was no accountability from the top down. If a training manager comes in late on a Monday morning or does not do his job properly, he is hauled in but nothing happens to the board and its executives. That is why FÁS needs to be reformed.

The composition of the board needs to be examined, as Senator O'Toole eloquently pointed out. I agree with the American way of doing business. There should be an open competition for appointments to the board with either the Public Appointments Service or the Committee of Public Accounts interviewing candidates. Let us end once and for all political patronage in this country. I can point to individuals appointed by Ministers to boards who should not have been but were because they were friends of the Minister involved or whoever. That must stop. Appointments to the board should not be in the Minister's gift. The Bill provides for appointees of the Ministers for Education and Science, Enterprise, Trade and Employment and Social and Family Affairs. Let us broaden this process. We are living in a new Ireland where people are tired of the old ways.

I canvassed 52 houses on a middle class estate in Cork last night and the board of FÁS was raised by six householders who had no interest in or connection with the agency. If the Minister of State wishes to restore its credibility, make it fit for purpose and change its governance structure, filling appointments to the board must not be in the Minister's gift. She should provide for an open competition and, as Senator O'Toole said, the open and vague language in the Bill which gives the Minister wriggle room should be deleted. Public interest directors should be appointed similar to those appointed to the boards of banks.

Taxpayers' money is at the heart of this. If we want to send a person to the moon, that is fine but one only has to examine what FÁS did with the taxpayer's money over recent years. Will that change under this Bill? I am concerned because the fundamental aim of the agency is to prepare people for work through training and upskilling. The legislation is a lost opportunity. The Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment and her predecessors, Deputies Harney and Martin, ignored Fine Gael for years about FÁS. The director general of the agency must be made more accountable. For example, he or she could be asked to appear in the Seanad for a debate to make the agency relevant to this House.