Paschal Donohoe (Fine Gael)

I must respond to one of the points made by the Minister and believe I have noted it correctly. He has said that in Ireland the role of Ministers is to make decisions, make appointments and be accountable for them. Is he joking? Look at the track record in setting up such organisations. The modus operandi of the Government is that when there is a big challenge before it or a big job that needs to be done, as the Minister has acknowledged, an organisation is established to which the Government subcontracts the responsibility. When we question the Government about the operation of the organisation, we are told the organisation, not the Government, is responsible for the matter. There was a strong example of this a couple of weeks ago when the Minister for Health and Children said the spending of €16 billion of taxpayers' money through the HSE was not her responsibility. I have no doubt that when the legislation to establish the HSE was going through this House, the same guarantees were given by that Minister as are being given today by the Minister for Finance, that the oversight or scrutiny roles of the Oireachtas would not be diminished by the establishment of the organisation to perform certain roles. We cannot press the point hard enough that there cannot be too much transparency in this area. I accept that no Member of the Oireachtas will have the ability to scrutinise this agency full-time. The Minister is right in that regard, in view of all the other things that must be done. In my opinion, the amendments under discussion would strengthen the oversight role of the Oireachtas.

I understand how the system of government operates in America and I accept that the constitution of that country is different to that which obtains here. Nonetheless, the legacy of ministerial accountable the Minister evokes when making his points is one of which we see precious little in this House.