Brian Lenihan Jnr (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)

That is a fair point and we can argue it in greater detail, but on balance the Government and I have formed the view that insuring the loans would not reduce the uncertainty we need to eliminate in the banking system.

The argument will be made about nationalisation. Senator Ross gave the most elegant exposition of that argument in the course of the debate, although Senator Bacik and the Labour Party contributors also made that case. I believe, however, nationalisation does not address the credit supply issue. It only addresses the issue of who owns the banks. On the question of nationalisation and in regard to these five institutions and the bad books we are buying from them, we already own five eighths of those institutions and as such, have gone a long way in the direction of public ownership.